Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Hp Games and bridges ???
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10926		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  clifton seeney [ Mon May 17, 2010 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Hp Games and bridges ???
Is it gamey to blow bridges???? I been in this club since 2000 and not once since I been playing HP games has anyone said it was gamey till now to blow bridges from 1805 to 1815 every game I been in someone blow up bridges! So if it is I want all my points back!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee
Author:  dean beecham [ Mon May 17, 2010 7:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Kliff.
No its not gamey ..

The older games bridges seem to be weak. so its easy for a side to pull them down.. if you look at the newer games it will take players some time to pull them down.

I have seen in some scn on the older games were one side can pull down all bridges and as the other player can not get over.. that side can not win.. This is when some would say its gamey.

All in all . keep away from those scn.. apart from that .. If it stops an emeny force attacking one of your flanks by pull down a bridge . then do it.

Historically it happened.

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
<font color="blue">La</font id="blue"> Commandeur, <font color="red">I Corps</font id="red">

ImageImage
Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  John Sheffield [ Mon May 17, 2010 7:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree...it's not gamey at all.

Lt. Col. John Sheffield
<font color="orange">23rd light Dragoon Regiment /
3rd Cavalry Brigade / <b>II Corps </b></font id="orange"><b>
<font color="red">ANGLO-ALLIED ARMY.
...............................................................
</font id="red"></b>
<b> <font color="red">~2nd Btn. 3rd Rgt of Foot Guards~
...............................................................
</font id="red"> </b>

[img]C:\Users\John\Documents\Wargaming\imagesCAC2Z0F5.jpg[/img]
<font color="green"> "Among these respectable warriors, the Scotch [Scots] deserve to be particularly commemorated; and this honourable mention, is due to their discipline, their mildness, their patience, their humanity, and their bravery without example."

"On the 16th and 18th of June 1815, their valour was displayed in a manner most heroic." </font id="green">
<font color="red">Viscount Vanderfosse.</font id="red">
Author:  Colin Knox [ Mon May 17, 2010 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
If blowing a bridge is gamey so is a cavalry charge

General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  Colin Knox [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's another one; players who are obsessive about endless historical house rules will come up with. If you do a good move and it's to their disadvantage you are gamey and not historical.

Hang on here's a thought....its a game.........
And thank god as people showed up dead a lot in the real thing.

I would dispute many of the house rules as being unhistorical anyway.
It's all fairly subjective so best to play with the game engine and except it's faults. Just my opinion.

General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  clifton seeney [ Mon May 17, 2010 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
It there a house rule such as that ???? Well I think that the Prussians when they put a barcade up was gamey then in 1815!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon May 17, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am going over the scenarios for the games I did. I may have missed a few though and just point them out to me if an update comes out and you still see something like a 5 point bridge.

Wagram is up next but I think I avoided using small amounts for bridges in the game. But its been 8 years since I worked on it so ....

Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!
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Author:  Jonathan Thayer [ Tue May 18, 2010 6:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I am in a mulit-player big Waterloo game with Cliff and Ian and our opponents blew up all the bridges across the Sambre except one. I really don't think there is anything wrong with blowing a bridge. I think that there are times when it might be essential when defending. The problem with it in this scenario is that it really just ruins the "game" As Colin said these are "games" and when I sign up to play a "game" that is 400 turns I would hope that the first day of that "game" would not be spent trying to cross a river. I know what is going to happen from this point on. By the time the French finally gain free passage over the river the Allies/Prussians will have a combined force of over 200,000 men set up a position along the creek west of Mallet and the game will be decided. That is the problem with this situation, it is just not any fun. I think that the Waterloo scenarios that start with the French south of the Sambre should restrict the destruction of those bridges. Historically the French took the bridge at Charleroi almost my bluff in that the prussians defending ran when the French appeared. Anyway, it is what it is and we will see what happens when the I Corps comes up from the west.

Marechal Jonathan Thayer
Duc de Saalfeld et Prince de Friedland
1/10/III
Armee du Nord




jonathanthayer@bellsouth.net
Author:  clifton seeney [ Tue May 18, 2010 7:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Well I think and many others that we all know this that have played this game. The main point is to kill as many of the Allied before they can combine how can you tell some one how to play to lose? When I first started to play these games the older players didn’t care one bit if I blow them all up I still lost even with 200,000 Allied troops!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Tue May 18, 2010 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
A river crossing is a challenge alright. In my present game as the Allies I didn't manage to really blow either of the Charleroi bridges before French units were on it. We fought for these bridges for hours, and finally French numbers told. I think it was exciting, plus, once over the bridge, the Allies really don't have enough power to stop the Frogs. But without the river and the bridges Prussian I Cps doesn't have a chance in hell to buy enough time for even the most modest Allied concentration.

200,000 men after one day? Impossible. It's 8 pm on day one now, both sides have lost 30,000 men each, but we are barely holding, and I have parts of 3 Prussian corps (what's left of I and parts of II and III) plus a British and a Dutch division, that's all. Most of Wellington's army is literally days away. I don't think it's remotely as bad for the French as you think, Jon.

Besides, why not Mons?

<center>
[url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/NWC/2nd_Dragoons.htm"]Image[/url]
Maj. Gen. D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
~ 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) ~
2nd (Union) Brigade, Cavalry Division, Anglo-Allied II Corps
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~ 3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards ~
[url="http://home.scarlet.be/~tsh40803/AAA/BritGuardHorse.html"]Image[/url]
</center>
Author:  clifton seeney [ Tue May 18, 2010 8:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Now when I suggested that we play a Hypothetical game V1 were the odds are even both sides disagreed. One said why would I fight a game were the enemy out numbers me allied 103 thousand vs French 115 thousand.

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee
Author:  Colin Knox [ Tue May 18, 2010 9:02 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with Gen Walter. The 100 days scenario is very difficult for the allies. I have played it twice as French and it's been very one sided.

You have to remember in the historical scenario the allieds are spread out all over the place and the French have two corp that march up after a while from the left and already over the Sambre.
I like Gen Walter actually found the fight for the bridges very interesting but in the end the Prussians get slaughtered.

Once you are over the Sambre I recommend you keep your force concentrated and march directly for Brussells. The allieds will not be able to gather sufficient forces in time and it will be a massacre. A key thing to do tactically is to exploit the ADN's vast and superb cavalry.


General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
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