| Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC) https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/ |
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| A question for Bill "The Creator" Peters https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10980 |
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| Author: | Prince Repnin [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A question for Bill "The Creator" Peters |
Bill, I guess, it would be very realistic if our artillery could get the ability to set fire to towns and villages on a battlefield. Is it possible technically[?] 
General-Adjutant Prince Vladimir Repnin 2nd Grenadier Division 8th Corps 2nd Russian Army, His Imperial Majesty Chevalier Guards' Chief 
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| Author: | Michael Ellwood [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:05 pm ] |
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Now thats a fine question and one that would be of interest all around. We'd have to decide on whether the buildings were predominantly wood or stone and hence a percentage factor adjuster for each type. As opposed to mud, wood and straw [:)] but seriously that would be great if we had a chance to set fire to villages with artillery! Col Mike Ellwood Commanding Officer 3rd Dragoon Division Reserve Cavalry |
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| Author: | Gary McClellan [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:05 pm ] |
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That would require a fairly substantial addition to the code by John Tiller. I'm not sure if anyone's brought that idea to his attention, or what he would think of such. You looking at blocking LOS, causing losses to units inside the town, creating rubble, or some combo of all the above? Feldmarschall Freiherr Gary McClellan Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army Portner Grenadier Bn Allied Coalition C-in-C |
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| Author: | Michael Ellwood [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:09 pm ] |
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Block LOS - Cuase minor losses and hex could just remain that way for a period then revert back to just village/chateau terrain. I don't think the rubble is that much of an issue in this period. Mainly make it impassable whilst on fire and blocks LoS for a defined period. Rain would nullify all obviously. My 2c. Col Mike Ellwood Commanding Officer 3rd Dragoon Division Reserve Cavalry |
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| Author: | Jeff Mathes [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:09 am ] |
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I recall discussing this topic here at the tavern a year or two (or three ago). It somewhat relates to the howitzer indirect fire discussion as howitzer shells were the primary cause of the fires. The visibility and LOS effect was also mentioned in the thread. If I remember correctly, there was little interest at the time of incorporating this as it would require additional programming to implement. Historically, I'd have to research how often a fire that was caused by howitzer fire made a significant impact on a battle. Jeff Mathes Colonel 33eme Regiment de Infanterie de Ligne Advance Guard 2nd Division III Corps |
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| Author: | Ernie Sands [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:48 am ] |
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In the Panzer series of games, there is destruction of buildings, fires and casualties caused by the actual firing and/or the fires. There is rubble, also. Direct fire arty and tanks can cause this damage. But, I do not know the feasibility of incorporating that into the Napoleonic games. <b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands General, 2ère Brigade, 1ème Division, V Corps, La Grande Armee President, Colonial Campaigns Club </b></font id="gold"> |
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| Author: | Roland [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:41 am ] |
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jeff Mathes</i> <br /> Historically, I'd have to research how often a fire that was caused by howitzer fire made a significant impact on a battle. Jeff Mathes Colonel 33eme Regiment de Infanterie de Ligne Advance Guard 2nd Division III Corps <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> historically two examples came instantly to my mind... 1) Ebelsberg 1809 - the town was set ablaze, not by howitzers but on purpose by the Austrians.... 2) a more prominent example would be the battle of Aspern-Essling, where it was Austrian Artillery fire which set the village of Aspern on fire, at least partially - to give a more detailed account I'd have to look up the sources again and I'll do that as soon as possible! If the destruction of buildings is already implemented in the Panzer-series, why not have the same in the Napoleonic games, in a different way of course? - Artillery was often used to fire on fortified positions - of course with less effect as in WWII - but if you take in account for example the huge artillery duel at Aderklaa...I am certain that buildings were destroyed with men in them... BUT: from my experience with the game though, and in my few battles Artillery was used very often to pound fortified position i.e. villages/chateaux even at close range - then being very effective - I think that losses of infantry positioned in buildings if fired upon by artillery are fine and realistic...that an entire section of a chateau really collapsed on a bataillon - I don't ever recall reading somehting like that! Ensign Roland Lenzi 1st Light bataillon Brunswick Brigade Anglo-Allied Army |
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| Author: | Jeff Mathes [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:06 am ] |
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Having a point value for walls and structures similar to bridges would be one possible approach. The difference would be damage and casualties could occur simultaneously to the wall/structure. This could be of real value if a Peninsula Campaign is ever developed to address the siege warfare aspect, e.g. breaching a wall followed by an assault. A bit off topic from the fire and smoke discussion... Jeff Mathes Colonel 33eme Regiment de Infanterie de Ligne Advance Guard 2nd Division III Corps |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:39 am ] |
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Actually please address all GENERAL questions about the series to Rich Hamilton. Rich is the point man for this series and can give official answers to questions like this. If you have a question about a title I put out (the work I did) then I am able to give you an answer. Otherwise check with Rich from now on please. Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come) Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about! 
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| Author: | Mike Cox [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:54 am ] |
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I think this might be something that gets abused by players. (No, that would never happen!![;)]) Not sure you would want fires a regular occurrence in the engine. It also then introduces fire spreading effects etc, etc. Could be a big can of worms to open. How big a benefit to the series would this be?? <b>Marechal Michael Cox</b> <font size="4"><i>Principe <font size="1">della </font id="size1">Toscana</i></font id="size4"> Comte de Moselle 
<i> <font size="2">2e battallion, 1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Pied, Inf. de l'V. Gde.</i></font id="size2"> <center>  </center>
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:57 pm ] |
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It must be time for the cycle. What is the cycle? 1. Can we have smoke? 2. Can we have auto squaring? 3. Can we have cavalry counter charging? 4. Can Rich Hamilton to a song and dance act for us? [:D] No to 1-3, I will let Rich take care of #4! [:p] I also have thought that Pioneer types should be able to: 1. Help with attacking Gates and villages. 2. Help with defending the same, etc. chateau, any hard cover. I also advocated that Samwise Gamgee (LOTR but my spelling may be wrong) be able to work with cavalry to cut a quick path through hedges but that one was vetoed. [:p] He would be the early answer for what the Americans developed in Normandy. [;)] Rohan cavalry should be able to have 10x multiplier right? [:o)] Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come) Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:07 pm ] |
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Ok, before the fourth thunder storm of the day passes over ... I am not The Creator. That title belongs to the most exalted Lord God! The title of this thread was bothering me for some time and now I know why (as lightning crashes through my window and hits the LCD panel). Actually Al Amos or some of the other designers in this club are far more creative than me. I am more of a hack than anything. I readily acknowledge that I also need guys on my team that are steeped in their Napoleonic history. Yes, I have learned alot over the years but there are far more creative people than I. One of my additions to my team last year, Warren Bajan, has been VERY helpful with my current projects. Without him you guys would NOT be getting a great product. His insight into the period and his knowledge of languages and uniforms (he is doing up the rough draft units.bmp file that we use for playtesting) has really put us on a higher plane. Ps 1:1-6 Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come) Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!
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| Author: | WillieD13 [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:55 pm ] |
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I would question if the idea is really worth the effort. Yes a town on fire could impede road movement, but that would really be the only effect on the game. Given the scope and scale, how much of the battlefield would really be involved. Currently all the battles are pretty much open countryside, so the only battles that come to mind, where it might actually have impact, would be at Quatre Bras and Ligny. Jena, Austerlitz, Wagram, Borodino, Waterloo, they are all out in open country. Now if you added setting the woods on fire, then you might have something. <center><font color="yellow">2nd Lieutenant Willie Davis Light Bn Luneburg</font id="yellow"> 
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| Author: | WillieD13 [ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:56 pm ] |
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I would question if the idea is really worth the effort. Yes a town on fire could impede road movement, but that would really be the only effect on the game. Given the scope and scale, how much of the battlefield would really be involved. Currently all the battles are pretty much open countryside, so the only battles that come to mind, where it might actually have impact, would be at Quatre Bras and Ligny. Jena, Austerlitz, Wagram, Borodino, Waterloo, they are all out in open country. Now if you added setting the woods on fire, then you might have something. <center><font color="yellow">2nd Lieutenant Willie Davis Light Bn Luneburg</font id="yellow">
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:57 am ] |
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Accidental fires were more common place than deliberate ones. Afterall why conquer a country that has been burnt to the ground? al Colonel Amos, 1ère Brigade Commandant, 2ème Division de Dragons http://albert-amos.blogspot.com/ |
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