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Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
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Author:  pgeerkens [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
I have just downloaded the V1.13 patch for Eckmuhl, and I see that the 2nd and 3rd battalions for all Austrian line regiments have lost their light company. This would seem to drastically affect the game balance, and has no basis in fact that I have come across. I am wondering what the reasoning for this was.

Any thoughts, good or bad, on this?
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
The earlier version of Eckmuhl was a drastic attempt to level the playing field but has not historical basis. The Austrians just did not detach their companies for skirmish duty.

Sheesh, even the Jagers and Grenzers fought in line. Skirmishing was discouraged by the Austrian commanders as too much akin to the mentality of the French Republic and that the average man could think for himself.

I reduced the morales for both sides. I would like to hear you comment on my incredible reduction of the French line units in the 2nd and 4th Corps/French in particular. Lets hear about BOTH sides of the fence for this update which largely met with high reception.
Author:  pgeerkens [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
Hi Bill,

I believe you confuse the absence of skirmisher companies with the absence of skirmishers. My research indicates that Austrian practice was:
1) To train (from 1/3 to all of) each line-company's third line as skirmishers. Role was very definitely limited to defensive and within 300 paces of parent battalion, but was re-affirmed by Charles' infantry instructions of 1807. Note that when deployed in line, the Austrian line infantry (or at least the better trained and higher morale units) in consequence became 2-rank infantry once skirmishers were deployed.
2) To extensively use light cavalry operating in open order as screening troops, a role at which the Austrian hussars in particularly were renowned, and all of the Austrian light cavalry held in high regard. Unfortunately the game does not allow the Austrian player to use his cavalry in this fashion.
3) To otherwise rely on the Jagers, Grenzers and Freikorps as offensive light infantry, although the Grenzer's relative ineffectiveness as light infantry was being widely noted by 1809. (This of course meant they must have been used as such often enough for the failure to be noted by all and sundry.)
4) To forbid grenadier battalions from detaching skirmishers. (Perhaps this is part of Charles' reason for not using the grenadier reserve during Teugn-Hausen.)

As side note, it seems to me that part of the role of skirmishers was to harrass a formed unit until it broke morale, and fired back. The true effect should be to fatigue the opponent as much as inflict casualties, and the signal for the main attack would be once the skirmishers received (non-skirmisher) return fire. Of course enemy skirmishers had to be disposed of first. This is based on the general acceptance that a unit's first volley (*2, for each firing rank), especially if delivered at near point-blank range, could be truly devastating. But to deliver such a volley the unit had to hold morale, and its fire, long enough for the enemy to approach.
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
Grenzer units trained and fought almost exlcusively as skirmishers. It was when attempts were made to use them in line that their faults in that area were noted. The nine battallions of Jagers also were trained and used as skirmishers as well as in line.

As for the Austrian line units:

Summation of the Austrians by David Gates in The British Light Infantry Arm, page 21:

'Both the Prussian and Austrian regulations relating to their deployment gave them little opportunity for independent action in true light infantry style. The Austrian rear rank skirmishers, for example, were largely relegated to a purely defensive role. Their function was seen as one of protecting the line regiments from harassment by hostile tirailleurs, and they rarely ventured more than 300 yards from the parent force which retained a rigid grip on their activities by transmitting directions on the battalion drums.'
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eckmuhl 1.13 - Austrians lost skirmishing ability?
Alright, fine guys, then the entire French III Corps will be changed for the next update to be able to fight entirely in skirmish order as it ACTUALLY did that. The ENTIRE Corps. Period. The entire corps (less Demont's div) can detach 360 skirmishers (less Demont). Your Austrian corps with your additional 2 skirmisher companies (over what they have now) you are asking for will have (counting Grenzers) something like 24 line skirmisher companies (do not rally as well as the light companies of Grenzers) and 24 Light companies (easier to self rally) for a total of 48 companies. Do the math!

Hey, that sounds even to me. Is that really where you want me to go with this because I can quote you chapter and verse where the French would breakdown ENTIRE BATTALIONS in the field.

So do we go the historical route?

Here is my call on this: you make a copy of the scenario and OB file. Change your copy as you like. Change the name of the OB file in the .scn file so that it points to your version.

Just don't look for me to play it. I will in turn publish my French version (which I had out at one time but changed).

Hey, what about those III Corps French morales? Are they not lower than they should be? Where are the cries from the French on this? Frankly I would think they are long overdue. The III Corps was the finest in the army. Its units fought with more elan than any other formation in the army. If III Corps had been at Aspern-Essling the outcome WOULD have been different.

Here is what you get currently if IV Corps (Austrian) runs up against 2 of Davout's Divisions:

4 Armeekorps: 7 Line Companies +36 Light Companies=43.

III Corps: 36 Light Companies + 24 Line skirmisher companies = 60.

If we went with your plan I increase the 4 AK by another 14 Line companies for a total of 57. I then would increase the III Corps by another 120 for a total of 180! Oh boy, you would sure piss off the other Allies with that plan.

I think that the Allies can handle 60 vs 43 easier than they can 180 to 57 (or a 3:1 ratio).

Consider my OB charitable to the Allies and lets leave off on this discussion please.

(added by Edit) I got word from a friend today that if you read on page 59 of Volume I of Gill's 3 volume set on the 1809 campaign that he comments on the status of the Austrian army in this regard. Even the Jager battalions that were formed were not trained in Light Order training.
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