| Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC) https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/ |
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| Waterloo Campaign map https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11226 |
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| Author: | pgeerkens [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Waterloo Campaign map |
Has anyone looked closely at the terrain of the Campaign Waterloo map in the region Charleroi to Frasnes, St. Amand to Binche? It seems to bear very little resemblance to the actual terrain in that part of Belgium. The Pieton River has disappeared in it's lower reaches, between Gosselies and Charleroi, and it's upper reaches near Trazegnies flow the wrong direction (south instead of north and east). The Sambre itself, west of Charleroi, is at least 2.5 km east of where it should be, and lies almost precisely on the pike from Beaumont that Napoleon's central column used on June 15th. Consequently the staging area south of the Sambre for Nappy's ccentral and left columns is barely a third of what it should be, artificially exacerbating the confusion that already occurs there, and forcing Napoleon to arrive on the pike from Philippeville. Here is a link to a readily available 1:200,000 19th century map of the area:http://mki.wisc.edu/Resources/Links/Reymann_maps/Reymann_maps_157_Mons |
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| Author: | Andy Moss [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Yes, I'd noticed a few errors like that. Waterloo and NRC are probably both in most need of patching. |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Well and Rich is probably not going to change the watercourse as frankly with updates you leave folks in the drink when you do that. What was solid land becomes a river. Two ways to deal with it: 1. Do it and let folks know that it was changed. Tell them to finish games where it applies then update when done. 2. Make a copy of the map, make the changes, change the name of the map in all of the scenarios that use it. |
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| Author: | pgeerkens [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
That is good to hear Bill. Do you know when we will get access to a Map Editor, and receive permission to edit maps, so that someone with time can do this? |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
It really has nothing to do with time. Believe me if Rich thinks it is worth changing he would. My two approaches above outline how a Scenario Designer/Map Maker can go about implementing the changes. As to the Map Editor - I am not the Nap Series Project Coordinator. Gave that up long ago to Rich. Once the last game comes out in the series and after some time has passed where we feel that the series has run its course for receipts then probably some time after that the map editor will be released. But this is NOT an official declaration of that. John may decide to just release it sooner. Not my call to make and anything I say is mere conjecture. In short, this is something (like I have said from the beginning guys!!!!!) that you need to email the HPS support folks. WHY DO YOU GUYS INSIST ON MAKING THIS THE SOUNDING BOARD FOR THE CUSTOMER! USE THE FRIGGING HPS SUPPORT EMAIL PLEASE! THiS IS OLD TERRITORY AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF SAYING THE SAME BLASTED THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN. NOTHING I SAY IS OFFICIAL. PERIOD - END OF SUBJECT. |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Hey instead of talking about JT's Nap game engine, let's use this Nap forum dedicated to those who play games on JT's Nap game engine to talk about.... DAISIES!  Come on, Bill, breathe. We need to talk about our desires, likes, dislikes about said game engine on this forum. It gives us something to do while we wait for game turns. |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Yes, but if folks have issues with the files and want something done about it you can be sure that it AINT going to happen because they posted it here. Unless someone uses the official email I know that I do not plan on making any changes to my games via this forum. This forum is for the CLUB. Not HPS or JTS gripes and so on. Lets get this forum back to what it was - it should be about jesting and fun and so on. I miss Muddy's posts and some of the days of Barry Maunsell - the club had LIFE then. Instead all we see are folks talking about the game engine. In part the fault lies with John Tiller and HPS. They never developed their own forums so ours and others has to be the place where game issues are discussed. That is NOT the purpose of this forum. This forum is for the CLUB use not about how the game engine should do this and that. And I refuse to take anything brought here to John Tiller anymore. Take it to him yourself guys. Quit being lazy and use the Support email accounts. |
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| Author: | pgeerkens [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
I did email the HPS support account, and was told: Quote: The maps used were 1:100,000 scale, so a bit more detail than what you have provided. ... I feel cheated to have asked my son to buy this game for me for Christmas, and quite frankly I am embarassed to show this game to him, with it's terrain and scenarios seemingly fabricated from whole cloth. As I feel the response from HPS is inadequate, my only recourse is to see what the opinion of other keen users of the game is. Apparently I am the only person who cares that the south-west 20% of the mapboard for Campaign Waterloo is total fabrication, bearing no significant resemblance to the real terrain either then or now. That's fair enough, as everyone has their own priorities. But blasting me for discussing the game in this forum seems out of line, as you always have the option of ignoring any posts here. |
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| Author: | John Corbin [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Please do not ask Bill or Rich questions like this here. Bill is correct in that the HPS Support mailbox is the way to communicate issues like this. It was a sticky at one point before we moved to the new forums. Keep nagging the HPS Support mailbox until you get something more concrete by way of an answer. |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
John, Please ask Bill not to ask US what we what to see from the engine, etc. He keeps making this not club but an HPS game engine think-tank. His opening up threads asking these types of questions, opens the door for us to think we can bring OUR issues here, just as he brings HIS issues here. We the membership apologize for being confused by the apparent double standard. |
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| Author: | John Corbin [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Al Amos wrote: John, Please ask Bill not to ask US what we what to see from the engine, etc. He keeps making this not club but an HPS game engine think-tank. His opening up threads asking these types of questions, opens the door for us to think we can bring OUR issues here, just as he brings HIS issues here. We the membership apologize for being confused by the apparent double standard. There is no double standard. The Original Poster made a comment that map had, what he thinks is, an error in it. Bill and Rich have both mentioned in the past that bug reports should go directly to the HPS Support mailbox. After all, John Tiller does not read these threads ( as far as I know ). As for Bill asking us "What would we like to see in the games" etc. Asking users what you would like to see in future games is not the same thing as asking users to submit bug reports. Pleae keep threads on topic. |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Okay, so some of us users would like to see accurate maps. Like the Waterloo map. |
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| Author: | John Corbin [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Al Amos wrote: Okay, so some of us users would like to see accurate maps. Like the Waterloo map. Make your concerns about this known to HPS Support |
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| Author: | pgeerkens [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Done. Again. It would seem reasonable to use this forum to recruit assistance from other interested users for such an endeavour; do you agree? |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waterloo Campaign map |
Good statement John. Much appreciated. I remember folks using this approach at work. Here is how it would go: I worked in the Security Dept. and as I would go about my daily tasks employees would ask me questions about depts. I didnt even work in. In short they were looking for a backdoor to the answer instead of going to the person that knew. I had similar requests from a guy named Brian to do work for him. When I told him that I would love to help but that my boss had to clear it first he would give me a look that basically said, "Sheesh, I do not want to do that." Why? Because he knew my boss would say no more than likely. There is a good way and a bad way to go about getting something done. Asking the electrician when the final panels will go up on a building project is a similar request. When you want to know, go to the Job boss not the journeyman. Requests for information are my own business and like John said are not solicitations to run down the game engine or ask me why a map or image is not accurate. I am just trying to get some idea on how best to do MY part of the work. Happy gaming and when I see the old kind of posts here I know that the members are generally interested in talking it up and having fun rather than running down the work we did (as the general line of discussion that is). |
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