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Why join Russia?
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11256		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  HarryInk [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Why join Russia?
They fight like demons! Hell, they fight the dang French to a standstill at Borodino in a SINGLE MINUTE! Oorah!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8dZhuJQyU
Author:  Alexey Tartyshev [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Urah! I knew it!
English Wiki should change its:

“French victory; Strategic withdrawal of the Russian Army. French strategic loss”

To:
"Inconclusive" - exactly like it is shown on Russian Wiki.
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
There is no need in gilding the gold.
Author:  HarryInk [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
We'll eventually have to create a one minute Eylau to reinforce the point. ;)
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
As Denis Davydov said the men ought not dress their zeal in service like they dress their chests in ranks. A rule of thumb is to do as much as you can and a little bit more. If you could create an Eylau scenario for HW:LG that would allow a purely historical flow of battle we all would be very happy. From my side I promise to provide any help possible in case you really decide to enter such an enterprise.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Good points here. Have you noticed that when the other European nations are NOT involved with a battle that Russia actually fought France the best? Yes, you Russians have noted that for years of course!

Only Friedland comes to mind as a major battle where the Russians did not fare too well on their own. And they were fighting FOR Prussia too! LOL 8)

Brings back memories of my Scruby Miniatures Russian army. I used to fight the French, Spanish, etc to a standstill as well. May not have won but if you needed a good defensive army no one can beat the Russians and that includes Wellington's boys too. Wellington faced Napoleon once, mainly a battle directed by Ney, and beat him. One wonders how they would have fared against the 1805-07 army.
Author:  Colin Knox [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Are yes Russia, we were friends once then the purses of the Merchants of London bought your loyalty. As I have said before Russia should leave the coalition and rule the world in conjunction with the enlightened leadership of the Tondu.

As for Borodino if it was a Russian victory why did you abandon the field and then the the holy city of Moscow to flames?
Author:  Bill Peters [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
As to Borodino if the French were so invincible why is it that they expected to find Moscow intact and somewhere to spend the winter? LOL
Author:  HarryInk [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Does no one outside of Russia listen the the Tsar? ;) Can western warriors really believe there is only one way of war?

Is not our ultimate reply that while Napoleon never entered St Petersburg, our capital, nor deposed his majesty, Alexander I, just over 18 months after Borodino there were Russian troops camping in the Bois de Bologne and strolling the Champs Elysee after tossing out that short mediterranean upstart on the pale horse. Whose capital fell? Who lost their throne? Who went on to rule an Empire more extensive and longer lived? (Then again, the plunder is better in Europe than on the Persian steppe).

You French face the Atlantic and are a continent away from our Motherland. Surely His Diminutiveness should take swimming lessons, equip himself, his horse and La Grind Armee with floaties, and resume his plan to visit Perfidious Albion personally, or get soggy trying. Compared to Mother Russia, itty-bitty little England is surely more his size, non?

Ah, pluck me another cossack, would you, mon vieux! ;P
Author:  HarryInk [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Oh, and Eylau is one of the scenarios that come with Les Grognards.
Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Oh I am sorry I don't seem to recall 1814. What I do remember was that it took much more than just the Russians to do this :mrgreen:
Author:  HarryInk [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Alors, this is like arguing with my wife! Selective memory (one doesn't recall the year but does recall the odds!!). We shall have to dub it 'Le Moniteur Memory Syndrome', I suggest. lol
Author:  Colin Knox [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Why Sir the year is 1806 and the Emperor is ruler of Europe how can I possibly know the future? :mrgreen:
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Bill,

if you sympathise or cause so much, beg you, do rejoin the French! :wink: :lol:

Harry,

I shall inform His Majesty about your zeal :wink:

Colin,

Yes, that's the problem. For you it's 1806 and Napoleon is the ruler of Europe. For us it's 1815, Russians have twice captured Paris and now garrison 1/4 of the France. And ex-general Buonaparte is busy polishing St.Helena pathes.

If serious a major differece in motivation is seen. I wanted to write a long-long post on it. But gave up. No time. It would be several pages long essay indeed.

Shortly put, Alexander personally and Russia as a whole never were concerned about Ruling the World. And, yes, from this point of view his actions are not perfect. But try to understand, that the only reason for Alexander to fight was to establish peace. Worldwide peace and prosperty. It's not easy in the world where everything is measured by personal gains. Alexander was one of the most altruistic persons ever to occupy a Throne. Second only to his father, I shall say. And a humble christian. If you understand these two facets of his personality, you'd understand a lot.
Author:  Colin Knox [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why join Russia?
Yes Alexander upon winnng the war freed all the peasants of Russia from Surfdom and allowed them to own land. :mrgreen: Having noted that situation was already the case in France.

Alexander might have been a nice person but the wars of the cooalition were about maintaining the status quo and power of the nobility against the threat of repulicanism created by revolutionary France and spread by the greatest General in history.

Napoleon was far from perfect but to hold Alexander up as a saint or champion of the people is bizarre :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: . He was pressured by the nobility to part with France after Tilsit and that ultimately led to 1812. A crime by Napoleon to invade Russia for sure but the culpability in the failure of the relationship was far from singular.
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