Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11751		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Mine is Marengo! What is yours? :D
Author:  Colin Knox [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Ahhhhhhhhhh campaign Marengo due soon a Bill. Jeez I hope so.

Mine is Austerlitz :mrgreen: - 1st choice
Napoleons deployment is a masterpiece of his method. Multiple overlapping battle templates that few historians have grapsed IMHO. Thanks to your game Bill I got to understand it in a way I never could from a book.

But 2nd choice is 1815 this truly is a magnificient campaign that brought together Napoleons genius against two of the best allied leaders of the period. The battles really are all quite epic in there comings and goings. To me this was one of Napoleons most brilliant campaign openings, however this was countered by the Prussians who were magnificient throughout the campaign.

By then they had begun to adopt the staff system that would see them dominate affairs in Europe from a military perspective until probably 1942 at Stalingrad. I would suggest by 1939 their were 3 or 4 Napoleons on the general staff. Guderain Mainstein etc.
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
I guess I would have to say that mine is the 100 Days Campaign as well. Like everyone else, I have studied all of the battles, but looking back, I have spent more time learning the nuances of Napoleon's last great foray. I agree with all of Colin's comments pertaining to this bold maneuver.

I agree with Colin on Austerlitz as well, particularly since he demonstrated his operational understanding upon my head in my game with him on that field. I really started poorly and, once I obtained an inkling of a clue, never had any chance to recover. But then, I was facing a consumate master. I do wholeheartedly and emphatically agree that I am able to gain a much deeper understanding of all battles by playing them in the fine games that you, and others, create for us. I am extremely thankful for all that the game designer's do to allow us to play. Can't begin to thank you enough really.

As for my favorite Napoleonic battle in the future, well, I would have to think that it would be any one in which I could manage to eek out a Minor Victory, even if only by one victory point, over the likes of Colin, Bardin, Paco or any of the other truly deadly French assassins that seem to roam this club at will, even if it just invloved the defense of my beer mug in this fine tavern. :wink: :P :mrgreen:
Author:  Roberto Breton [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Ulm Campaign. A masterpiece.
Author:  Matt Wenczkowski [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
I think I have to play more before I can pick a favorite. The problem with many of our scenarios is that we already know far too much about them. Take Austerlitz for example, everyone already knows that our beloved Emporer brilliantly set and executed a trap. We can not hope to re-create it. But then, I suppose that is where the "campaign" games come in handy. They must be full of suprises! :wink:

Regards,
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Matt Wenczkowski wrote:
But then, I suppose that is where the "campaign" games come in handy. They must be full of suprises! :wink:


As will be the custom designed SON Tournament scenarios as well. :wink: :wink: :wink:
Author:  Colin Knox [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Lieutenant Wencz
What you say may be true about Austerlitz however you will find as the allied player is aware of the trap the test will be to see if you can discern Napoleon's contingent deployments. At Austerlitz his deployment was designed for the use of several different plans of operations. The one that he used was a reaction to Allied movement. Herein is the interest what will you opponent do? and what should you in response?

I love that scenario it's so balanced as well. I recommend it highly.

Salute!
Author:  Matt Wenczkowski [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
General Knox,
<Snaps a Salute>

I thank the General for his advice. Perhaps one of these days I will have some of the experience, knowledge and expertise that you have. Until then, I will gladly take your word for it because presently I doubt I would acheive a victory agasinst a competent enemy. I hope to change that soon for I am working hard at gaining the experience. :wink:

Regards,
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Matt Wenczkowski wrote:
I think I have to play more before I can pick a favorite. The problem with many of our scenarios is that we already know far too much about them. Take Austerlitz for example, everyone already knows that our beloved Emporer brilliantly set and executed a trap. We can not hope to re-create it. But then, I suppose that is where the "campaign" games come in handy. They must be full of suprises! :wink:

Regards,


Tip: question was not "what is your favorite battle from the HPS games. Just name the battle you like to read about best from history.
Author:  Matt Wenczkowski [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Generalmajor Bill Herzog Peters von Dennewitz,

Good point sir. My appologies for drifting a bit from your thread. :oops: I am not much of a historian. Most of my so called knowledge comes from the games and some reading of battles off the internet. I do not yet have the greater knowledge and appreciation of the Napoleonic era that you, General Knox and many others have. Perhaps one of these days I will.

Regards,
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Matt - question: how did you get into Napoleonic gaming? Are these your first Napoleonic games? Did you ever play board games of the Nap. period?

I would highly recommend David Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon if you have not read it already. It is the best "first book" to read on this period. Similar to reading Liddell Hart's History of the Second World War. What I like about Hart is that he is not a "British always did things right" fanatic. His theory on mechanized warfare and "the indirect approach" are dealt with a bit in the book and really help you to get a feeling for how the war would unfold.

If all I had were two books (well, along with Coddington's work on Gettysburg) to read on history those two would be it.

Two other books to read are "Austerlitz: 1805" by Robert Goetz (recommended to me by Paco Palomo) and the three volume set on the 1809 campaign of France vs. Austria by John Gill. Gill's work is probably the top of the class of books on 1809.

Peter Hofschroer's work on 1815 is right up there as well.

Hope that helps!
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
I would heartily second Herr Peters recommendation of David Chandler's fine tome.

I would also add that the "A Military History and Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars" by John R. Elting is an excellent work for those who like to see the movements of the various battles overlaid on a map of the terrain.
Author:  nelmsm [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Don't worry Matt, you'll find yourself getting into it. Before starting these games what I knew of Napoleon was that he lost at Waterloo. Picked up my first game, the old Talonsoft Waterloo, after reading a few volumes of Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe series and haven't looked back. I would have to agree with the recommendation of Chandler's book as thankfully my local library had a copy. Just finished reading Nafgizer's Napoleon's Russian Campaign and I'm having to resist the urge to let some Frenchie officer kick my butt at Borodino. It's an itch you just can't quite scratch. I've gone far enough that I downloaded all the Napoleon Bonaparte podcast with David Markham and listen to them at work during the day.
Author:  Matt Wenczkowski [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Officers and Gentelmen,

I thank you all for your recommendations for my history education. For some absurd reason, I thought I was finished with all that learning and books stuff when they tossed my sorry, worthless arse out of the Ecole Militaire! :lol: Perhaps I'll be able to find a little more time and check into some of your "light reading" suggestions. After all, if it helped the likes of General Knox become the feared assasins of the battle field they are today, perhaps some of it will rub off on me. :wink:

In response to Generalmajor Bill Herzog Peters von Dennewitz questions:
I first discovered boardgaming way back in my high school days, 1979/80ish. I played some SPI simple games such as Napoleon's Last Battles, Leipzig and others. I drifted away from it but met some other people and played a little of some other games, Wellington's Victory, Battle of Moskowa and the like. Finding the time to get together on Saturday nights wasn't easy back then. Years later, computer gaming got a hold on me with Talonsoft's Napoleonic games and then HPS added in. The problem was always finding opponents for both board and computer games. I discovered INWC and NWC a few years ago. I tried to make a go of it but my father's health required my time and attention. But now I am back and plan to stick around until they pry my sabre from my cold dead hand! :twisted:

Sorry to bore you with all that usless minutia but you did ask. :)

Vive L'France!
Vive L'Empereur!
Author:  Colin Knox [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Name Your Favorite Napoleonic Battle
Yes in a rather B grade movie called Lake Placid a character played by the similarly B grade Oliver Platt responded as follows:

'How an earth do you know that sir?
Why they hide such things in books.....'

I must agree with Bill's comments. I have a very worn out copy of Chandlers superb work. I started reading it when I was 10 and have read it numerous times.

I now have a large military history library including such works as the one Mark Jones mentions below. Eltings West Point manual is awesome for a wargamer.

My personal favourites include the titles listed by others here but I would add:

Waterloo 'new perspectives' by David Hamilton Williams. In this book many of the mysteries of this epic campaign are 'solved'. Indeed you can learn how the Prussian attack at the French hinge occurred as the Guard were driven back by Maitland. The result of this Prussian attack was exactly as prescribed by Napoleon - 'once you rupture the vital point the rest is nothing'

The Battle by Alessandro Barbero. This is a good companion to the above book and offers a different perspective on Napoleon's plans on that fateful day. It's not as in-depth but more speculative like Fuller below.

And finally one of histories most insightful writers is Major General JFC Fuller. His work called the Generalship of Alexander the great is priceless. It has numerous applications.

Panzer Leader Heinz Guderain is useful too.

Of course their are many more :mrgreen: .
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