Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11980		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bill Peters [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
Guys - I think that too much has been made of the victory levels actually. The players are always welcome to do the following:

1. Research the scenario.

2. Come up with your own set of victory levels.

3. Optionally use a more "board game" approach: "You must control three of the four buildings in order to win a Major Victory" or that kind of thing.

Why avoid playing a game if you are the one that can mandate the victory?

That has been my driving concern for years. Why buy a product but avoid playing it - you own the game! Sheesh, the victory conditions were never meant to be iron clad.

Look, all you have to do is COPY the file and change the victory levels to your own liking for your particular game. Just note in the club records that you are playing your OWN version of the game.

Thus for any of our scenarios or hey even for LG/HW or whatever you can even sit back after the battle is over and assess it objectively and say, "Well Fred, you did a better job than me and even though the Victory Levels say I got a Minor Victory I am conceding a Draw to you." This has been done before I know.

In other words, before a game is started why not negotiate a bit. Then play the situation out and enjoy playing the game again.
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
I agree with Bill. The main object of our games should be to have fun! I personally enjoy meeting and getting to know all of my fellow gamers as much as I do playing the game. :P :P :P
Author:  David Guegan [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
Interesting but sometimes if you play a scenario for the first time you don't know the difficulties ahead or because we play in a club where victories count for promotion, people are less prone to discuss the victory level.
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
I couldn't agree more with what is being said here.
I'm new to this club, and as previous post mentioned, the outcome of games affect "status"
within the context of promotions.
I've played these games for a number of years on the "outside", and often my friends and I would agree to our own victory conditions. Usually this boiled down to playing scenarios where both sides would generally have equal chances to take either defensive or offensive actions.
We would agree in certain situations that the winner was the one who was projecting control over the majority of the map area (hence value of terrain features, road networks, etc), and casualty counts.
It typically boiled down, just as in real life, to you know when you've won and when you've lost.
Author:  David Stotsenburgh [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
why not disregard victory levels and agree to send the final game turn to a 3 member panel composed of a superior officer from each of the players army and one agreed upon neutral observer. the panel then can decide much like historians who won or lost based upon casualty levels and terrain held etc. should make for some good arguments, just like real history.
Author:  Al Amos [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
"why not disregard victory levels and agree to send the final game turn to a 3 member panel composed of a superior officer from each of the players army and one agreed upon neutral observer. the panel then can decide much like historians who won or lost based upon casualty levels and terrain held etc. should make for some good arguments, just like real history."

I volunteer to be the neutral observer, and for 50 USD I can promise to be objectively minded, from the viewpoint of the sender, of course! :lol:
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
$50 - Man that's cheap! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Now is that $50 per game evaluation, or do you work on a retainer? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Author:  Al Amos [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
No retainer, my teeth are beautimous as is.
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
Al, as they say in the country, "You ain't right!" :shock: :roll: :lol:

You know that though don't you? :wink: :P :mrgreen:

"To thine own self be true", Al. 8) 8) 8)
Author:  Al Amos [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
Maybe, Mark, maybe, but if luvin' me is wrong I don't want to be right. :lol:
Author:  Bill Peters [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
The only problem, Al, is that you are His Imperial Majestie's Postman and are not allowed to take bribes, not allowed to take bribes, not allowed to take bribes, not allowed to take ..... :mrgreen:

I will do it for 49.99. I learned how to price things from that Baron of the Used Car, Cal Worthington.

If you never saw a Cal Worthington ad you have never lived ... :lol:

"This is Cal Worthington and his dog, Spot!" (and Spot was never a dog. He was a Lion, rattlesnake, sometimes a chimp. You get the idea)

(break to music and Cal standing on his lot)

"Just head on down to Bellflower Blvd. We have a 1969 Pontiac Bonneville for 3499. And here is a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda for 5399. If we cannot find the right car for you I will eat a bug!"

And yes, honest to goodness that is what he would say too! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:

The music was a guy singing this:

"If you're looking for a better set of wheels ..."

(then Cal would say this)

"I will stand upon my head to beat your deal.
I will stand upon my head,
Til my ears are turning red,

(back to the other singer)
Go see Cal, go see Cal, go see Cal!"

Had to endure this a lot with late night movies especially. He always got the prime time slot! :D

This guy Cal was a millionaire. He KNEW how to sell cars and they say he started by selling ONE car on the front lawn of his house in Oklahoma, Texas or one of those states.
Author:  David Stotsenburgh [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
here i thought i had a good idea and you knuckleheads turn it into some sort of comedy routine. i should have known better.. :D :D
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
David Stotsenburgh wrote:
here i thought i had a good idea and you knuckleheads turn it into some sort of comedy routine. i should have known better.. :D :D


Yep, well you will learn. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

In my mind, the object should always be to have fun. You are actually lucky that our little Hanoverian "Rat" is not still around. I guarantee he would have posted some kind or humorous image. Ah, I do miss that little rodent. I still have hopes that he was merely taken prisoner by the French, and that one day my fine Jagers will infiltrate their camp and return him to our colors. :( :? :P
Author:  clifton seeney [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
Mon Président sometimes we most be able to listen to one another with out being a comedy act the young garcon was trying to be serous and the Russi who clams he knows the Lord should know "be quick to listen and slow to speak". An not have the new people feel like their voice is a voice crying in the wilderness!
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Victory Conditions in Any Game or Scenario
My dear Colonel Dumas, I think that the young, Prussian Leutnant actually took it all in jest. Note his laughter... :lol: :lol:

Had he actually been offended, I would have expected something more like this... :x :evil: :twisted:

So tell us Herr Leutnant Stotsenburgh, art thou a pitiful, lone voice crying in the Wilderness? :shock: :shock: :shock:
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