Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/

Everything 1809!!
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12141		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Gary Whalen [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Everything 1809!!
I have been reading Petre's title "Napoleon and the Archduke Charles" which has sparked my interest in Eckmuhl and Wagram, as one might guess 8) . Anyways, this is an excellent read (reading it on my Kindle, which is on my phone--Good Series on the Napoleonic Wars) and since I do not have much experience with either Eckmuhl or Wagram I was curious what scenario(s) have been most enjoyable for you guys from each of these two titles??
I know I've heard that "Hunting Davout" is a popular one, haven't played it yet, but what else has been a good PBEMing experience for both you and your opponent? Maybe someone is playing something fun and exciting as we speak. Please share and let us know. I've also looked into the Campaigns from each title and Mr. Peters help create an excellent looking campaign called "Eckmuhl and Wagram 1809" (Need both titles to play as you might assume, but their interlocking) which looks Absolutely amazing for a good PBEMing experience.
Maybe you didn't have a good experience with one of the scenario(s) and or campaigns. Tell us why. I'm trying to spark a little conversation about 1809 on the Danube........ 8)
Lastly, reads on this particular year I'm curious about. I'm sure others would also greatly appreciate if you have something you've read recently and enjoyed during this time frame of the Napoleonic Wars. Please share. Let's have an open discussion!! :mrgreen:
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
I love to played the linked campaign myself... :D John Gill has written some excellent books on the campaign.
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
I recently read Napoleon's Great Adversary about Archduke Charles and the Austrian Army, by Gunther E. Rothenberg.
Found it very informative.
As of yet the two games for the 1809 Campaign I do not own, though look to do so in the future at some point.
I do feel that the Austrian army gets little attention from many people, for the crucial role it played thruout the Napoleonic Wars. Indeed, in Europe it was more involved, for longer periods of time than any other country. The Archduke should rank as one of Napoleon's most talented opponents in my opinion.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
Todd - yes, Austrians most defeated army in Europe! :mrgreen:

No wonder by 1814 they were looking to get the Bavarians, Prussians, Russians, hey anyone, to do the fighting.

"Ok chaps, its your turn to have a go at old Boney, what?"

Of all of the Austrian troops, Napoleon had the highest admiration for the Grenzers. And they were not even fighting in open order most of the time.

It would be hard to compare the Austrians with another army in the world - tied to supply lines and very much tied to an older military tradition. But they had some commanders like Rosenberg who were up and coming. They just never succeeded in really defeating Napoleon. In the end the Prussians, Wurttembergers, Russians and Bavarians did the fighting for them. (as proof sometime you should read the casualty stats at Leipzig - its a sampler for who did most of the work - at Dresden the Austrian left flank was routed away - pretty much why they didn't do much fighting in 1813 - their army was composed of just as many "conscript" types as the French)

Austria in 1809 was at its best. And that is not saying much since you had one faction (the King and Hiller) vs. another (Charles). They should have beaten Napoleon to be honest. Just never had a real staff system that could act on the spur of the moment. Charles having to lead a grenadier battalion sort of tells you how things worked ... :wink:

I studied the Austrians a lot back in the days of Eckmuhl and Wagram. I like the troops but the officers are another matter. I remember the old Empire III mini rules - the Austrian leaders had awful ratings. Their units were good but when you are committing them to combat in regiments well its hard to win a battle.
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
I think they did thier share at Leipzig Bill, particuarly on the first day.

Official Allied Casualty lists reported:

Officers Men
Russians 865 21,740
Prussians 498 15,556
Austrians 419 14,641
Swedes 12 203
____ _____
Total 1,794 52,040

They reminded a lot of the Army of the Potomac in ACW, they got beat a lot of by a better general but kept coming back and were in on the final victory. The 1809 army was excellent quality but poorly letter. Charles had a good plan but it was badly executed. They defeated Napoleon at Aspern-Essling and nearly did so again at Wagram. I quite admire them.
Author:  Gary Whalen [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
Ed,
Have you PBEMed with the linked Eckmuhl & Wagram? If so, how did it play out?
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
Yes Gary, I have gone thru it twice. I believe the first time was with Paco, (who treated much like Napoleon treated the real Austrians). :) Lot's of choices and it is fun to go all the way through the entire campaign.
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
I was not intending to imply that the Austrian army was the best of the Allies, but rather that it was constantly engaged vs the French. The soldiers are due some respectful regard for getting back into the ring as it were, over and over and over again (much like Blucher in this way). The Austrian officers were absolutely among the worst of the lot. Charles was definitely crippled in the subordinates he was stuck with. And even he could not fully grasp the necessary concepts needed to defeat the French, but he came very, very close. One can only wonder what might have happened at Wagram if Charles had the hindsight of digesting Clausewitz's principles regarding a defensive battle used to gain decisive victory?
Author:  Colin Knox [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
I have played Aspern Essling, Wagram and Znaim vs Jim Pfluecke. We played them all with MDF.
They were great games. I have also played Hunting Davout twice which is also excellent.

The Austrian army is strong in a different way than other armies. The big btns make it ponderous but like a ship of the line if you get caught in a broadside many will fall.

The French army of 1809 is really good as well. I enjoyed playing them.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
zinkyusa wrote:
I think they did thier share at Leipzig Bill, particuarly on the first day.

Official Allied Casualty lists reported:

Officers Men
Russians 865 21,740
Prussians 498 15,556
Austrians 419 14,641
Swedes 12 203
____ _____
Total 1,794 52,040

They reminded a lot of the Army of the Potomac in ACW, they got beat a lot of by a better general but kept coming back and were in on the final victory. The 1809 army was excellent quality but poorly letter. Charles had a good plan but it was badly executed. They defeated Napoleon at Aspern-Essling and nearly did so again at Wagram. I quite admire them.


..........

By 1814 they were having the Bavarians and Wurttember troops do their fighting. Austrians corps and reserve troops being kept out of the battles.

I think if you studied the battles closing you would find that the Russians and Prussians suffered more KILLED than Wounded meaning that they were doing more of the fighting. For an army that was very large as compared to the Prussians at Leipzig the losses that they suffered are lower in percentage by a wide margin. The Russian losses are horrific ...
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Everything 1809!!
Todd Schmidgall wrote:
I was not intending to imply that the Austrian army was the best of the Allies, but rather that it was constantly engaged vs the French. The soldiers are due some respectful regard for getting back into the ring as it were, over and over and over again (much like Blucher in this way). The Austrian officers were absolutely among the worst of the lot. Charles was definitely crippled in the subordinates he was stuck with. And even he could not fully grasp the necessary concepts needed to defeat the French, but he came very, very close. One can only wonder what might have happened at Wagram if Charles had the hindsight of digesting Clausewitz's principles regarding a defensive battle used to gain decisive victory?


Very true. The Austrians were more diligent to prosecute the war than say the Prussians. Their Aulic Counsel and logistics probably doing just as much to defeat them as the French! :P

I would like to paint an Austrian army eventually. Never did when I was painting. That and a Prussian army of 1813.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/