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| Open Question to Native Russian Members https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12390 |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Open Question to Native Russian Members |
For the Spring Campaign of 1813 how would you list the Russian command structure? Here is what I am considering using for the Spring 1813 campaign OB - Late April: CinC - Wittgenstein Major Components: Right Wing - GLt Gorschakov II Berg's Corps St. Priest's Corps Cav Division Center - GLt Miloradovich Eugene's Corps Emmanuel's Cavalry Left Wing - GoI Barclay de Tolly Markov's corps Unknown Corps (do not know the commander's name) One cavalry division Reserve - Constantine 3rd Gren Corps 5th Guard Corps Gd Light Cav Div Reserve Artillery --------------------end of OB text------------------ Frankly I do not trust Nafziger for the Russians. Did they use a Column system as per 1805 or were they basing their command structure on the Corps system of 1812? It looks like that at the battles they resorted to a "Line" system. At Bautzen they used "Lines" according to Nafziger. Very confusing command structure. How many armies were there? I see a 3rd Army of the West commanded by Barclay. What happened to the 2nd Army of the West? Was it amalgamated into one of the other armies? From what I gathered my OB listed above covers a "generic" format. I realize that the beginning of the campaign saw the Russian army divided up into "Columns" - Wittgenstein was on the right flank, Miloradovich was in the center. Winzingerode was on the left Any good OBs in English out there? Or would you be willing to translate for me the framework of an OB? Looking for a Russian helper here. NOTE: This OB will be dynamic - I plan on using at least one other OB and will use the ORG file mapping to route the losses from one OB to another. The Russian army changed their commanders around quite a bit. The various brigades seemed to have remained semi-constant. Even entire divisions remained intact. It was the cavalry elements, especially, that changed composition the most. However, I wish to avoid that by just using a simple format for each OB file composed of Army - Wing - Corps or just Army and Corps. I would like to avoid placing a Brigade directly under a Wing for instance. Sources I am using: Nafziger: Lutzen & Bautzen Nafziger: Napoleon's Invasion of Russia (the December order of battle pages in the back of the book add in some detail that might help me) Hofschroer: Lutzen & Bautzen I am looking to include as many of the units/formations as possible that COULD have fought in battles from April to June - not counting units that were used to mask fortresses or who were marching to the theater but did not make it - if you provide these I can add them in for a what-if formation that arrive. Looking to make this as accurate as possible but mainly to include the correct UNITS under the right IMMEDIATE formations (Division). |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Open Question to Native Russian Members |
Ok - this has been changed to be: (note disregard many of the spelling errors - I am fixing these as I get to them - also: Barclay's "Corps" will be added in later) Main Army of the Elbe: General of Cavalry Wittgenstein 1st Corps: Generallieutenant von Berg Cossacks Platov #4 Cossack Regiment Koschkin Cossack Regiment Illowaiski #10 Cossack Regiment Gorin #1 Cossack Regiment 5th Bashkir Regiment Cavalry: Mitau Dragoon Regiment: GM Alexiev Converged Dragoon Regiment 5th Division: Generalmajor Lukov Brigade: Generalmajor Mezenzov Perm Infantry Regiment Sievesk Infantry Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Prince of Siberia Mohilev Infantry Regiment Kalouga Infantry Regiment Grand Duchess Catherine Battalion 14th Division: Generalmajor Kasatschovsky Brigade: Generalmajor Helfreich Tenguinsk Infantry Regiment Estonia Infantry Regiment Brigade: Colonel Brischinsky Res. Bn/Count Arakcheyev Gren Res. Bn/Pavlov Gren Res. Bn/Ekaterinoslav Gren Res. Bn/Tauride Gren Res. Bn/St. Petersburg Gren Brigade: Colonel Glaskov Converged Grenadiers of the 5th Division (2) Converged Grenadiers of the 14th Division (2) Olonetz Militia Battalion Vologda Militia Battalion Artillery Generalmajor Lowenstern Heavy Battery #1 Heavy Battery #5 Heavy Battery #14 Heavy Battery #33 Light Battery #27 Horse Battery #1 (2 guns) Horse Battery #2 (6 guns) Horse Battery #3 (11 guns) Corps: Generallieutenant Baron Winzingerode Striefkorps Davidov Striefkorps Manditov Striefkorps Prendel Cossacks: Grekov #3 Cossack Regiment Grekov #9 Cossack Regiment Grekov #21 Cossack Regiment Shurscherinov Cossack Regiment Cavalry: Generalmajor Landskoi Brigade: Colonel Prince Vadbolsky Alexandria Hussar Regiment Soum Hussr Regiment White Russian Hussar Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Knorring Tartar Uhlan Regiment Lithuanian Uhlan Regiment (2) Lithuanian Chasseur a Cheval Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Count Witte 1st Ukranian Cossack Regiment 3rd Ukranian Cossack Regiment Artillery Generalmajor Nikitin Horse Battery #7 Horse Battery #8 2nd Infantry Corps: Generallieutenant Prince Eugene von Wurttemburg 3rd Infantry Division: Generalmajor Schachafskoi Brigade: Colonel Schilvinsky Mourmansk Infantry Regiment Revel Infantry Regiment Tchernigov Infantry Regiment Brigade: Colonel Kapustin 20th Jager Regiment 21st Jager Regiment Jager Bn formed from prisoners of war from Breslau 4th Infantry Division: Generalmajor Pischnitzky Brigade: Colonel Treffurt Tobolsk Infantry Regiment Volhynie Infantry Regiment Riask Infantry Regiment (1) Brigade: Colonel Ivanov Krementchug Infantry Regiment 4th Jager Regiment Artillery Heavy Artillery Battery #3 Light Artillery Battery #6 Light Artillery Battery #7 Light Artillery Battery #33 Corps: Generallieutenant Count Gotschakov II 7th Infantry Division: Generalmajor Tallisin Pskof Infantry Regiment Sophia Infantry Regiment 19th Jager Regiment Tomsk Infantry Regiment 34th Jager Regiment (1)(From 4th Inf. Div.) 1/2 Bn Oufa Infantry Regiment (From 24th Inf. Div.) Pioneers (2 cos.) Cossacks (97) Russian Reserve Army: General of Cavalry Tormasov 3rd (Grenadier) Corps: Generallieutenant and Adjutant Konovnitzin 1st Division: Generalmajor Sulima Brigade: Colonel Kniaschnin II Count Arakcheyev Grenadier Regiment Ekaterinoslav Grenadier Regiment Brigade: Colonel Acht Tauride Grenadier Regiment St. Petersburg Grenadier Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Tschoglikov (Dresden garrison) Pernau Infantry Regiment Kexholm Infantry Regiment 2nd Division: Generalmajor Zwieleniev Brigade: Colonel Pissaref Kiev Grenadier Regiment Moscow Grenadier Regiment Brigade: Colonel Golowin Astrakhan Grenadier Regiment Fangoria Grenadier Regiment Brigade: Colonel Hesse Little Russia Grenadier Regiment Siberian Grenadier Regiment Artillery: Heavy Battery #30 Heavy Battery #31 5th (Guard) Corps: Generallieutenant Lavrov 1st Guard Division: Generalmajor Rosen Brigade: Generalmajor Potemkin Preobragenski Guard Infantry Regiment Semenovski Guard Infantry Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Krapovitsky Ismailov Guard Infantry Regiment Guard Jagers Guard Marine Equipage Battalion 2nd Guard Division: Generalmajor Udom II (Dresden Garrison) Brigade: Colonel Krischanovsky Lithuanian Guard Infantry Regiment Finland Guard Infantry Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Schelutchin II Leib-Grenadier Regiment Pavlov Grenadier Regiment Artillery: Generalmajor Kastanietzky Guard Heavy Battery #1 Guard Heavy Battery #2 Guard Light Battery #1 Guard Light Battery #2 Guard Cavalry Corps: Grand Duke Constantine 1st Cuirassier Division: Generalmajor Depreradovitsch Brigade: Generalmajor Arenief Chevalier Garde Regiment Horse Guard Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Baron Rosen Emperor's Cuirassier Regiment Empress' Cuirassier Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Kretov Astrakhan Cuirassier Regiment Ekaterinoslav Cuirassier Regiment 2nd Cuirassier: Generallieutenant Duke Gallizin V Brigade: Generalmajor Leontiev Gluchov Cuirassier Regiment Pskof Cuirassier Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Count Gudovitch Military Order Cuirassier Regiment Starodoub Cuirassier Regiment Brigade: Little Russia Cuirassier Regiment Novgorod Cuirassier Regiment Guard Light Cavalry Division: Generalmajor Schavitsch Brigade: Generalmajor Tschailikov Guard Hussar Regiment Guard Uhlan Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Tschischerin II Guard Dragoon Regiment Guard Don Cossack Regiment Black Sea Cossack Sotnia Artillery: Colonel Kosen Guard Horse Battery #1 Guard Horse Battery #2 Cossacks: Generalmajor Ilowaisky XII Karpov #2 Don Cossack Regiment Grekof #2 Don Cossack Regiment Jagodin #2 Don Cossack Regiment Zikelef Don Cossack Regiment Ataman Don Cossack Regiment Rebrikov Don Cossack Regiment Semenschenko Don Cossack Regiment Strawrapolsch Don Cossack Regiment Kutainikov #4 Don Cossack Regiment Don Horse Battery #1 Reserve Artillery: Light Battery #32 Light Battery #36 Heavy Battery #5 Heavy Battery #7 Heavy Battery #28 Heavy Battery #31 Heavy Battery #32 Heavy Battery #36 Reserve Artillery Detached to BlĀcher: Heavy Battery #1 Heavy Battery #14 Heavy Battery #33 Detachments from Hauptarmee Generalmajor Tettenborn at Hamburg Isoum Hussar Regiment (4) Kazan Dragoon Regiment Horse Battery #1 (2 guns) Grebzov Cossack Regiment Komissarev Cossack Regiment Sulima #9 Cossack Regiment Denisov Cossack Regiment Generalmajor and General Adjutant Tschernischeff on the Saal Isoum Hussar Regiment (4) Finland Dragoon Regiment (2) Riga Dragoon Regiment (2) Sisava Cossack Regiment Grekov #18 Cossack Regiment Vlasov #3 Cossack Regiment Illowaiski #11 Cossack Regiment 2 Infantry Companies Horse Battery #1 (4 guns) Generalmajor Dorenberg in Boizenburg & Lauenburg Converged Hussar Regiment 1st Bashkir Regiment Andrev #2 Cossack Regiment Melnikov #4 Cossack Regiment 1/2nd Jager Regiment Horse Battery No. 5 Generalmajor Harppe with Bulow's Corps Polish Uhlan Regiment Ob Gukiev Niejine Chasseur a Cheval Regiment Navajinsk Infantry Regiment (562) Tula Infantry Regiment (401) Heavy Battery #21 Heavy Battery #28 Beschentzov Cossack Regiment Grekov #9 Cossack Regiment Generalmajor von Roth near Leipzig Brigade: Generalmajor Rudinger Horse Battery No. 23 Grodny Hussar Regiment Illowaiski #4 Cossack Regiment Rabinov #2 Cossack Regiment Selivanov #2 Cossack Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Vlasov 23rd Jager Regiment 24th Jager Regiment 25th Jager Regiment 26th Jager Regiment Generallieutenant Count Voronzov marching on Frankfurt Cavalry Generalmajor Count Orurk Pavlograd Hussar Regiment Volhynie Uhlan Regiment Melnikov #5 Cossack Regiment Diatchkin Cossack Regiment Bihalov #1 Cossack Regiment Kutainikov #6 Cossack Regiment Illowaiski #3 Cossack Regiment Illowaiski #5 Cossack Regiment Horse Battery #11 Horse Battery #13 Infantry: Colonel Krassovsky 13th Jager Regiment 14th Jager Regiment Sievesk Infantry Regiment (1) Converged Grenadiers of the 9th Division (2) Converged Grenadiers of the 15th Division (2) Converged Grenadiers of the 18th Division (2) Light Battery #26 General of Infantry Milleradovitsch in Altenburg Striefkorps of Colonel Orlov (750 men) Striefkorps of Captain Geismar Detachment of Generalmajor Emanuel Kiev Dragoon Regiment Moscow Dragoon Regiment Horse Battery #3 (4 guns) 37th Jager Regiment Barbantchikov #2 Cossack Regiment Jachontov Opolochenie Cossack Regiment Detachment of Generalmajor Lissanevitsch in Gera Tchougouiev Uhlan Regiment 3rd Ukranian Cossack Regiment Horse Battery #4 (2 guns) Detachment of Generalmajor Iusefouvitsch in Zeitz Karkov Dragoon Regiment Kargopol Dragoon Regiment Pantelev #2 Cossack Regiment Horse Battery #2 (2 guns) llth Jager Regiment Advanced Guard: Generallieutenant St. Priest Brigade: Generalmajor Patschulidsev I Tchernigov Chasseur a Cheval Regiment New Russia Dragoon Regiment 1st Teptar Cossack Regiment 1st Bashkir Regiment Horse Battery #6 Brigade: Generalmajor Karpenkov 1st Jager Regiment 33rd Jager Regiment 43rd Jager Regiment Light Battery #14 4th Infantry Corps: Generallieutenant Markov Brigade: Generalmajor Turgenev (from llth Division) Polotsk Infantry Regiment Jeletz Infantry Regiment Brigade: Generalmajor Schapskoi Olonetz Infantry Regiment (from 11th Divison) Starolsk Infantry Regiment (from 11th Divison) Kaporsk Infantry Regiment (from 4th Divison) Corps: Generallieutenant Count Volchonsky 8th Division: Generalmajor Engelhard I Brigade: Colonel Schindschin Archangle Infantry Regiment Schusselburg Infantry Regiment Old Ingremannland Infantry Regiment 17th Division: Colonel Kern Brigade: Colonel Kern Riga Infantry Regiment Bieloserk Infantry Regiment Brest Infantry Regiment Artillery Generalmajor Merlin Heavy Artillery Battery #2 Heavy Artillery Battery #30 Light Artillery Battery #3 Light Artillery Battery #19 Light Artillery Battery #42 Light Artillery Battery #44 Cavalry Reserve: Generallieutenant and Adjutant Baron Korff Brigade: Generalmajor Milesinov Akhtyrsk Hussar Regiment Loubny Hussar Regiment Horse Artillery Battery #10 OB is from Plotho care of Warren Bajan. Barclay was still to the rear with his own corps, coming up to join the action after Lutzen. |
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