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| Bautzen Campaign https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14217 |
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| Author: | Tim Cavallin [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Bautzen Campaign |
Hi Gentlemen, I am playing a Spring 1813 campaign game against a worthy Allied opponent. While I have been quite delinquent in my game turns over the past few weeks, I am trying to get back into the swing of things. (Without trying to sound like a cry-baby) as I re-visit this Bautzen campaign, I am starting to realize how difficult this is for the French player. I chose the more southern option at the start of the campaign. What I am finding is the following: 1. A large part of the French infantry has a morale of 'D'... they will rout very easily if attacked. The Allied troops, on the other hand, are comprised of crack and elite troops, including all the heavy guard cavalry and Russian cuirassiers, Prussian stormtroopers... heck even the Prussian landwehr formations have better morale than half of my infantry. 2. Allied cavalry superiority in terms of # and quality is immense (though that may just be historical reality). Ataman Cossacks with morale of 'B' for god's sakes. 3. While on paper it seems as if the French have a numerical advantage of 102,000 versus I'm guessing around 85,000 Allies, it seems as if the entire Imperial Guard corps of 16,000 and 68 guns is FIXED for the whole battle, and on the most western side of the map. In other words, they will never see action, and so the # of troops on each side turns out to be about even, and the best troops that the French could deploy are stuck on the other side of the map. 4. The onus of attack lies with the French, if they are to achieve enough victory points to succeed. 5. Their is a big long un-passable creek that the French need to cross, which is easily defended by the superior Russian cannons which totally outrange the French guns. This all seems kind of hopeless to me. And I am thinking that I should simply resign the game. Anyone have any thoughts on this whole situation? Cheers, Tim |
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| Author: | Tim Cavallin [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
I just did a count of my 'D' French infantry, and they add up to 46,000 out of the total French army of 86,000 that can actually engage the enemy. French cavalry = 7,200 Allied cavalry ~ 20,000 No chance in hell in winning this one... |
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| Author: | Andy Moss [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Tim Yes I tried that one and I agree it is impossible. The allies also have a huge number of guns. The terrain is excellent for a defender. And the French start on a minor defeat as I recall. The other option is striking north but I'm yet to be convinced that is any easier for the French. |
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| Author: | Tim Cavallin [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Thanks Andy. Actually the French start in a Major Defeat position... so they must push and attack hard with all their 'D' infantry (and no real artillery or cavalry support)! |
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| Author: | Tim Cavallin [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
So, I have conceded the match to my erstwhile opponent Michael Fredel, as a major defeat for the French after around 28 turns. Congratulations Michael, and my courier is back to your tent enquiring about a potential rematch on another field! Cheers, Tim |
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| Author: | Andy Moss [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Yes, a wise decision. I tried twice as allies and twice as French, all allied MV. I tried the Northern Thrust the once as French and fought my opponent to a draw, but the next scenario was an allied romp. We've tried the Fall Campaign and the first two scenarios there were heavily in favour of the allies. |
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| Author: | Ed Blackburn [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Yes, that one needs some major reworking. VP's and victory levels need adjusting. You can try agreeing to a draw see what the second scenario brings you. |
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| Author: | Tim Cavallin [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
I also believe that OOB and PDT files in general could use some tweaking for 1813. I find that some of French units' morale (notable Ney's III Corps) at 'D' is too low relative to other units. Similarly, I feel as if the morale of a lot of the Prussian infantry & Russian cossacks are too high. Also, I still believe that France had the dominant artillery (Russia was a close 2nd), but in the current games Russia's artillery seems to be far and away the most dominant. (I realize these comments may seem subjective to people) Last year, I worked with the H&R guys to develop a 4-day Leipzig battle with their concepts, which involved modifications to the PDT file, rebuilding the OOB files to change morale, capping unit strengths, stacking limits, emphasizing firing & de-emphasizing melee steamrollers, units more realistically "run away" quicker. I experimented with Todd & Ed (if I recall correctly), and found that the parameters needed a bit more tweaking.. but the flavor of the game seemed very interesting. I think I may revisit this project sometime soon, and then re-share it with any interested parties. |
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| Author: | Todd Schmidgall [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Salute! Yes Tim, we experimented a bit with your Leipzig scenario design. The file is still in my system, so we can re-visit it at some point. I very much like the concepts behind the H&R mod's, and Vladimir Repnin's R&H house rules system. I think it is very cool what you and a good many others are doing with the efforts at tweaking the game files, trying to figure out different ways of expanding the games we all enjoy so much. Regards, |
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| Author: | Jim Pfleck [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
I am playing Michel in Bautzen (historical battle) and he is very cunning in his use of the Allied Army (I am the French)... |
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| Author: | MCJones1810 [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Micheal is the best Prussian player, and one of the best Coalition players as well. Tim is quite formidable in his own right. The Bautzen title does favor the Coalition, just as many of the other titles favor the French. The individual skill of the players involved still remains the most decisive factor in the determination of victory or defeat. |
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| Author: | Jim Pfleck [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Tim, I need to go dig in my basement for Bowden's book on the Grand Army of 1813 but Ney's Corps was as raw as any troops fielded in the whole period by the French. I am not sure of the quality of the artillery outside of the Guard at this point... I am playing Bautzen for the 2nd time as the French and find that the army must be handled very different than normal.... |
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| Author: | Christian Hecht [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Maybe more like a crystal sword? Can cut but if it hits to much resistance it will shatter. |
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| Author: | MCJones1810 [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Christian Hecht wrote: Maybe more like a crystal sword? Can cut but if it hits to much resistance it will shatter. Sounds like that which we Coalition officers have always had to contend, only with an inferior command structure to boot.   
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| Author: | Colin Knox [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bautzen Campaign |
Mark let me get you a tissue
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