Antony, the heavy cavalry do get defensive bonuses as I stated. You should never rely on what the manual says. The only way to be certain is to test the game engine itself.
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| What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14254 |
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| Author: | maarten [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
About hussars and dragoons and other difference cavelary? Which one are stronger than the others? Could someone tell me please? |
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| Author: | MCJones1810 [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Generally, as Dragoons are a bit heavier thn Husaars, they receive a 10% bonus in both attack and defense. Hussars are treated at normal values for both. Cavalry which is actually designated as "Heavy", such as Cuirassier, gain a 25% bonus in both attack and defense. Lancers are very effective in the attack (+25%), but vulnerable in defense (-25%). Cossacks have more specific limitations of their own that does not apply to other cavalry types. Basically, your Light Cavalry (Chasseurs and Hussars) and Cossacks are best used for scouting and screening, whereas you Heavy Cavalry units (Cuirassier, British Heavy Dragoons, Etc.) are best used for breaking the enemy lines. |
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| Author: | maarten [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Thank you! |
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| Author: | Antony Barlow [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
I think Mark has basically covered it, although I don't believe heavy cavalry or dragoons get any defensive bonuses. The manual says that the +25% for heavies and +10% for dragoons is for attack only. Cossacks can only get their strength multiplied (x3 or x5 depending on the game) in a cavalry charge if the defending hex contains at least one Skirmisher unit, Routed unit, or Artillery unit, in addition to the other normal cavalry charge conditions, which limits their usefulness in attack somewhat. Cossacks can be useful in irritating your opponent and making him assign more of his cavalry to guard his flanks and rear, without having to heavily commit them in combat. |
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| Author: | Scott Clawson [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Horses!!! I hate horses.................. |
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| Author: | MCJones1810 [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Antony, the heavy cavalry do get defensive bonuses as I stated. You should never rely on what the manual says. The only way to be certain is to test the game engine itself.
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| Author: | Jim Pfleck [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Generally, the French have more and will use them to pound you into oblivion, so be prepared! Other than that, Mr. Jones is spot on... |
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| Author: | Antony Barlow [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
MCJones1810 wrote: Antony, the heavy cavalry do get defensive bonuses as I stated. You should never rely on what the manual says. The only way to be certain is to test the game engine itself. Mark, I did base my assertion on tests I have conducted and they appear to confirm what the manual states. I conducted some melee attacks between the various different types of cavalry and examined the figures in the Melee Status and the Melee Results reports, comparing effective/actual attacking/defending force, which is where the +/- 25% or 10% strength values appear to be factored in (so too the reductions for disorder). The modifiers for flanking, quality, leaders, terrain, not shooting, etc. are listed and applied separately and so do not interfere with these figures. The reports clearly showed the increase in effective attacking strength for heavies, lancers and dragoons, but there was no increase in effective defending strength for heavies or dragoons (i.e. effective and actual strength are equal, and this figure is the same as the strength reported in the unit info area), but the -25% for lancers defending was there, just as the manual states. How are you conducting your tests? I am happy to stand corrected and learn if you can show me how I have been misinterpreting this data... |
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| Author: | clifton seeney [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Cav is the only arm of battle without fire support so keep Art at all times with Hav Cav. In table top the Dragoons are called battle Cav to be used before you use what some say Guard Extra Hav Cav. The French players have a way of using their Super heavy cav too soon and by the late turns they are not use for the Kill. Use Super Heavy and Guard to kill the enemy not as a spear head like Rummels tanks. Lights I would say are to be off line on flanks to dash in and kill Artillery. Allied E units can make a AAA+ Cav wish they never were used as a spear head. |
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| Author: | MCJones1810 [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Antony Barlow wrote: MCJones1810 wrote: Antony, the heavy cavalry do get defensive bonuses as I stated. You should never rely on what the manual says. The only way to be certain is to test the game engine itself. Mark, I did base my assertion on tests I have conducted and they appear to confirm what the manual states. I conducted some melee attacks between the various different types of cavalry and examined the figures in the Melee Status and the Melee Results reports, comparing effective/actual attacking/defending force, which is where the +/- 25% or 10% strength values appear to be factored in (so too the reductions for disorder). The modifiers for flanking, quality, leaders, terrain, not shooting, etc. are listed and applied separately and so do not interfere with these figures. The reports clearly showed the increase in effective attacking strength for heavies, lancers and dragoons, but there was no increase in effective defending strength for heavies or dragoons (i.e. effective and actual strength are equal, and this figure is the same as the strength reported in the unit info area), but the -25% for lancers defending was there, just as the manual states. How are you conducting your tests? I am happy to stand corrected and learn if you can show me how I have been misinterpreting this data... My apologies, Antony. I ran my own series of tests and agree with your findings. I had done this in the past and confirmed the defensive bonuses. Something may have changed, I do not know. At any rate, I know you are correct for the Waterloo and Bautzen titles as I did just test those again. Thank you for correcting my error. It is good to know that at least one of us was really paying attention. |
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| Author: | Christian Rizo [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Gentlemen, I would want to speak about the particular case of the Cossacks. I'm playing a game (Campaign Austerlitz-the Battle) with Antony and we agreed an "embedded melee phase" style which is the best style.  We agreed about exceptions which are in particular skirmishers: we may melee them at any time. I think, and I suppose that we will talking of that before starting the revenge (yes, there will be one  ), that Cossacks should be an exception too, because they are somewhat the russian equivalent of the skirmishers and I think it's not logical that 5 or 6 Cossacks can block the way in front of a formed riders unit. In the real life, with their E morale, they would clear off in no time Maybe we'll talk again of rout limiting. I still think that the most historical option is not to check it but that's another story 
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| Author: | Antony Barlow [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Christian, I hadn't thought about considering cossacks in the same way as skirmishers as an exception to the embedded melee rule, but you make a good point, worth considering, especially for very small detachments. On the other hand it wouldn't be realistic if so doing would result in them being surrounded and captured. Cossacks, with their superior riding skills, would never allow that to happen! This is all something to discuss, and you have got me thinking... As for rout limiting, I'm not sure it is necessary. At any given time, at least half of my E quality cossacks are routing away far to the rear of my army!
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| Author: | Christian Rizo [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Antony Barlow wrote: Cossacks, with their superior riding skills, would never allow that to happen! I agree but I think we can say the same thing about skirmishers, at least for light infantry deployed in skirmishing position, which could move very quickly and certainly were more difficult to surround that it is in the game! So, I would propose that either we make the exception for both, or we do not make it. |
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| Author: | Clint Matthews [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
excellent stuff guys.............this is what these boards should be about. |
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| Author: | Cezary Pluskwa [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What are the advantages about the diffent cavelary? |
Sirs, maybe should be... Infantry, not matter, the Guard, line, light, certainly trained, well-led, should calmly take a charge of Cossacks on yourselves in formation a column, not a square! If the morale of the infantry is A and B may be a line, column, square. If C and D is a column, square. E and F, only a square. Of course, the orientation of infantry formation, especially in line, morale of Cossacks and other things still are important.
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