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Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14545		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Quite often we can see descriptions of historical events that seem to be improbable and even impossible, that nevertheless did take place. But one event stands out of this line. In appriximately the same place, in very similar conditions something thought of by contemporaries as impossible happened twice. With a time distance of about 19 years. It was something done on a tactical level that had operational and even strategic consequences.

The questions are:
1. Where dit it happen?
2. When did it happen?
3. Who was taking part in it?
4. What happened?

The first of the events is rather well known, the other is much more forgotten. I can't give more details. But as it is the question is too vague. So instead of the answering you may ask questions. To wich I would try to answer yes or no.

And no, Boney N didn't personally take part in the event.
Author:  Viktor Shmagin [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Infantry charging cavalry in the open?
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
No.

And by the way it was not impossible. Rare - yes. But at the very least Seven Years War gave several examples and Revolutionary and Napoleonics give much more. Again, not happening every day, but not something unheard of neither.

And please, be more specifit: Who? What? Where? When? :-)
Author:  Tim Cavallin [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Does VALMY have anything to do with it?
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
No.

Reflectoric answer: A very good try! And an excellent example of such an "impossible" action on a tactical level having strategic implications. But what would be its later counterpart in 1811? To my shame I have only limited knowledge about the actions at the Peninsula. :frenchoops:

Anyways it's not what I was talking about.

On a second thpught: And if so, how could it possibly happen in the North-Eastern France!?

On a third thought: Well, it has something to do with the battle of Valmy. Like in this case both the events could possibly take place only with unbelievably high elan on the one side and total unvillingness to fight on the other.
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Salute

Does Frederick the Great have to do with this

Regards
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Absolutely! Every staff officer who made anything like this had a fair chance of becoming second Zieten. :frenchcharge:

But nothing other than that. :russianveryhappy:

BTW, Todd, congratulations on the promotion!
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Salute!

Sorry, i cannot come up with all of the particulars, but would the discovery of the perpendicular method of maneuvering into line be what we are seeking here?

If not, I have another guess...

And thank you for the congratulations!

Regards,
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
I very much miss my tiny daughter who's spending the summer in the country. So much so that telling "neee"=no just like her, even virtually, brings enormous joy. So:

Neee!

It's about dash and zeal, not the deadborn theories. If it were about infantry formations I'd mention the Old Dessauer, not the Battle Dwarf :sly:
Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Alexander the great performs a superb oblique manuever at Guagamela and defeats the Persians 331bc.

Frederick the great performs a superb oblique manuever at Leuthen in 1757 crushing the Austrians.

Both shared abusive fathers and carried the title 'great'. They actually have some other things in common as well. Quite an interesting reach across history.
Not the right answer but at least its a crack!
Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
But seriously infantry attacking a cavalry formation perhaps? The Russian guard at Borodino charged some French heavies I recall and ...?
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
Colin, no.

The events in question took part at approximately the same place with time distance of approximately 19 years. There was no fighting with enemy forces around Moscow neither in 1793 nor in 1831.

Glad to see you joining us! :russianveryhappy:
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
The long silence here I ntrepret as the question being either too difficult or not interesting. :frenchsad:

To deal with the first possibility let's simplify the task. Some more information that allow to very much limit the time span and placing of the events in question. So:
1. Both the events happened during Revolutionary/Napoleonic wars.
2. They happened not on the borders of Spain and Italy.
3. The events happened in Europe.

From these three points one may conclude that:
a. the events happened somewhere along the French "natural borders" - from low-countries to the Switzerland.
b. the former event happened somewhere between October 1794 and August 1796.
c. The later even happened somewhere between October 1813 and August 1815.

If there is no reply I'll post an answer on Friday evening.
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
I find all the trivia questions/topics interesting reading. Sometimes I try to find the answer other times I just enjoy the attempts. :frenchcharge:
Author:  Prince Repnin [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Impossible happens: twice. Trivia
I guess, it is the battles of Jemappes, 6 November 1792 and Belle-Alliance (Waterloo), 18 June 1815.
Both towns locate in the same area.

Am I right?
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