Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/

Campaign Eckmuhl
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14633		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Antonio Zinno [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Campaign Eckmuhl
I just buyed campaign Eckmuhl from JTS web site, thinking that it was as all the other campaign that i have( waterloo, leipzig, asterlitz, 1814,Jena) where there are scenarios 15 mins/turn and scenarios with 10 mins/turn.
This new one have all 15 misn turn scenarios, and i like it, but all the movement points are soo strange that i have never seen it before.
Infantry 22 , cavalry 28 , guns 24.
i really do not like this, i have updated it with the HPS patch and is all the same.
How to fix this?
Perhaps the game from HPS website have the right movement points? and if yes how to have a refund from JTS website to buy the HPS one?
Thanks all in advance
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Salute!

I have both the hard game CD and the download version.
All the scenarios I see use the 15 minute scale turn.

Yes, the movement points are different, and can take some getting used to, however, this is all accounted for in the time scale and the costs for different terrain movement.

My biggest complaint about this game is the names used for the scenarios.
There are many wonderful variations upon the different battles, however it is not so easy to tell what is what just by looking at the main menu scenario titles.

It is the variation of scenarios for the battles that I do find very enjoyable in this game.

Regards,
Author:  Tony Barrett [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
<Salute>

I agree with Todd - the movement figures are confusing as they run out quicker than you imagine. But the real bug bear is the lack of differentiation in the scenario names.

Still it is great to play as an allied officer. Actually get to feel one has a chance of winning. ;-)
Author:  pierred [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
You can change the PDT files with data from a standard game. Can easily be modified with copy and paste.

I tried it an it worked. The time scale and movement in both are about the same except for road movement. Pike is the same. Both players need the same file. Is the hex scale different? I doubt it since the units move about the same distance and the gun ranges are close if not equal.

You can change a scenario name with name of the PDT files to the mod. This way the original scenarios are not modified. Only 2 files with small modifications, the scn with the new PDT reference and a few lines in the PDT. PDT files and scenario file are in the root directory.


EXAMPLE
Original

22 28 24 20
0 0 0 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
0 0 0 0 0
10 8 12 16 16
8 6 8 12 12
10 8 16 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
6 4 4 4 6
8 4 8 8 8
8 6 12 0 0
6 6 6 6 6
0 4 4 4 4
0 3 3 3 3
0 2 2 2 2
0 4 4 4 4
2 2 4 4 4
20 16 0 0 0
2 2 4 4 4
4 4 8 12 12
4 4 8 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
2 2 4 4 4
12 10 16 0 0
2 2 2 4 4

To this from Waterloo

10 14 10 10
0 0 0 0 0
2 2 2 2 3
0 0 0 0 0
5 5 6 8 8
3 3 4 6 6
4 4 8 0 0
2 2 2 2 3
2 2 0 2 3
4 2 4 4 4
3 3 3 4 4
3 3 3 3 5
0 2 2 2 2
0 1 1 1 2
0 1 1 1 1
0 2 2 2 2
1 1 2 2 2
0 0 0 0 0
1 1 2 2 2
2 2 4 6 6
2 2 4 6 6
0 0 0 0 0
1 1 2 2 2
2 2 4 6 6
1 1 1 2 2

Rename the file when you save the file change.

Go to the applicable scenario that use this PDT. Change the referenced PDT and save the scn file with another name.

A scenario might use the Frenchfirst.pdt Modify the scenario reference pdt with the new PDT name. Save the scenario with a new name to reflect the change.

Now you have a 10 inf move scenario and a 22 move scenario. Like having 10 and 15 minute turn scenarios.

I doubt if the small differences are worth the annoyance of changing movement. Calculating movement is very important and changing it from the original is an annoyance.

Gun ranges are similar and that can be changed as well if need be.

If you screw it up I am sure you can get an original file from your buddy by email. They are small files.

If you find an opponent who wants to try this just email the scenario file and PDT file to copy, same root directory place as the game files.
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Unless I am mistaken, you would also need to modify the associated scenario files as well so that you cover the same period of time. Basically, you would have to increase the number of turns by 50%.
Author:  Antonio Zinno [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Thanks for the reply

Pierre i do not want to start working on the PDT files, expecially when i buy a new game; is not cause i do not know how to do, i am sure that you can help me a lot on this, but JTS should be more clear on the game that they sell.

have the HPS version the right movement points ?

Todd you are right, the name of files is another annoying thing.

I will start to ask for a refund and if HPS version is as all the other games, i will buy it; hope to get it cause i payed with my paypal account :sly: :sly:

Again thanks to you all friends
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
[quote="Antonio Zinno"]Thanks for the reply



have the HPS version the right movement points ?

Todd you are right, the name of files is another annoying thing.

I will start to ask for a refund and if HPS version is as all the other games, i will buy it; hope to get it cause i payed with my paypal account :sly: :sly:

Again thanks to you all friends[/quote]
IIRC, the HPS and JTS version have identical movement points and the same file naming. So, you would, essentially, get the same game
Author:  MCJones1810 [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
The movement rates are correct for 15 minute turns, Antonio. There is nothing wrong with your game. All Eckmuhl games are configured the same. There is no difference between the HPS and JTS versions. The movement ability is nearly the same as you have more movement points, but higher terrain costs for moving. Still, you do have to make a mental adjustment to understand your movement capabilities.

My previous comment about adjusting the number of turns in a scenario only applied if you were coverting from 15 minute turns to 10 minute turns. I realize now that was not the case. Pierre was simply converting the Eckmuhl 15 minute movement rates to the Waterloo 15 minute movement rates, with the necessary terrain cost modifications.

I have often thought that life would be much simpler if all of our games employed the same movement system. I have the same thought on cavalry charge multipliers, artillery fire tables, VPs for casualties, etc. These are only consistent if the games were designed by the same person. Just the way it worked out, and something we generally just accept. Each game plays differently, you just need to remain aware of which one you are playing at any given time. I don't see JTS changing this.
Author:  Antonio Zinno [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
I have checked a lot of eckmuhl scenarios, not all cause there are a lot, all have 15 mins/turn and all have the same movement points I.E. Infantry 22 , cavalry 28 , guns 24.
I have checked the HPS web site the eckmuhl game and, from the pic that you can see in this link the movemnt for infantry is the right one.
Now or the HPS version have the correct movement points, or the picture is a fake.

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/N ... kmuhl.html

Pls check it , i will ask to HPS for this difference.

McJones you are right is a nonsense to have many battle and many movement system, VP for casualties, and so on; but all of us like them and so we try to play at our best tring to modify our mental form changing from one battle to another. ( we all should ask John Tiller or whoever is making these games to adopt only 1 system )

The fact is that if HPS have not the same movement system of JTS i want to buy that one, even if it cost 10 USD more than JTS
Author:  Mike Friedman [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Despite what that picture shows you, the HPS version has the same movement rates as the JTS version. There is no difference between the two.
Author:  Clint Matthews [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
MCJones1810 wrote:
The movement rates are correct for 15 minute turns, Antonio. There is nothing wrong with your game. All Eckmuhl games are configured the same. There is no difference between the HPS and JTS versions. The movement ability is nearly the same as you have more movement points, but higher terrain costs for moving. Still, you do have to make a mental adjustment to understand your movement capabilities.

My previous comment about adjusting the number of turns in a scenario only applied if you were coverting from 15 minute turns to 10 minute turns. I realize now that was not the case. Pierre was simply converting the Eckmuhl 15 minute movement rates to the Waterloo 15 minute movement rates, with the necessary terrain cost modifications.

I have often thought that life would be much simpler if all of our games employed the same movement system. I have the same thought on cavalry charge multipliers, artillery fire tables, VPs for casualties, etc. These are only consistent if the games were designed by the same person. Just the way it worked out, and something we generally just accept. Each game plays differently, you just need to remain aware of which one you are playing at any given time. I don't see JTS changing this.


boy.........I couldn't agree more.

I always find it very difficult with the changing values.............game to game.
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
A few things:
(1) that picture is from when the game was originally released, over 13 years ago--the movement point system has since changed. The scenario designer for Eckmuhl (and all of the HPS/JTS Napoleonic games except NRC and Waterloo), Bill Peters, have since changed how he did the movement to make the game more subtle and complex.

So his first two games, Eckmuhl and Wagram, have the 15 minute turns (like NRC and Waterloo) and a different movement point system. His newer games (not all new-Jena is what, 7 years old?) use the 10 minute turns and a simpler movement point system that is still more complex than NRC or Waterloo. Tiller lets his designer fine tune the game to their liking, so you get differences between games in the same series designed by the same people.

This past January, I asked Bill to walk me through how to standardize the PDT files (I wanted to use Leipzig as the base) and he offered to help but I did not have time. This is certainly something we could do as a club. If we have someone like Pierre who can make the changes and then a team of us modifying and verifying the scenario files it could be done.
Author:  Antonio Zinno [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Thanks Jim

i am up to help you to standardize all the games, at least th games that i have ( Waterloo, Leipzig, Austerlizt, Jena, Eckmuhl, 1814).

I can edit the pdt file with the help of Pierre and verifiy them.

Just let me know when to start and what to do.

At your order Sir :thumbsup:
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
I am about to go camping so I will be offline for a while (camping and then catching up on work...) and then, we can talk...
Author:  Todd Schmidgall [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Campaign Eckmuhl
Salute!

Jim and Antonio both offer very interesting thoughts on the idea of creating standardized mods of the scenarios for the club

I liked the direction the H & R folks took the games making changes to the unit sizes and stacking limits, as well as changing morale factors as it related to disordering and routing

Keep the ideas flowing
Helga, drinks for my noble comrades, if you please

Regards
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