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Fanatical Units
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15080		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Compass Rose [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Fanatical Units
I am currently playing my first BPW scenario (148 San Pedro 11 March 1809) as the Allies, and I just noticed that I have some units that are labeled "Fanatical +2".

Image

Also seen in the image, it states "Change 66%".

Can someone please explain to me what this is?

If it is explained in the BPW manual, I am not able to locate it.

Thanks
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
I will take a shot at this, based on memory, which is, of course, not always the best way to go.

Change %---this is the percentage chance for that unit to change formation. If is less than 100%, that means that the unit is "threatened by the enemy." I think the formula is somewhere in the manual but basically, if a unit can see lots of enemy units, especially cavalry and artillery, close to it, then it has a high threat value and a lower change %. Change % can be raised by the presence of a leader AND, I think, is heavily influenced by the morale level of the unit.

If the change value is 100%, then nothing is displayed. So if you do not see a change value, you have a 100% chance of changing formation.

Fanatical units get that bonus to their morale check rolls. So this unit gets a plus 2...

Does that address your questions? I am sure Andy will be along with a shorter answer and Christian with the actual math...
Author:  Compass Rose [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
So the Fanatical part of a unit has nothing to do with giving them an attacking or defending bonus, just a morale bonus?
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
That is my understanding.
Author:  Andy Moss [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
Jim is correct on both accounts. It means that such units are less likely to rout, but +2 is far more sensible than the +4 the Russians enjoyed in NIR.

We have a bottle of wine called tras os montes. Not that that is relevant but still.

Also as Jim says, Christian will provide us all with the actual mathematical basis for that.
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
Yes Christian, please give us a mathematical understanding of why wine is good. We cannot trust the English with these sorts of things :scottishduh:
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
OK here is the math, the Threat Value in a hex is given by the sum of all individual Threat Values that threaten this hex.

Threat Value from Infantry:
At 1 hexes: (2 * S) / 100
At 2 hexes: S / 100
That means a typical battalion of 800 men(S=800) has an individual thread value of 16 at 1 hex and 8 at 2 hex distance.
You see at 2 hexes the threat value will be half as high as it is at 1 hex.

Threat Value from Artillery:
Up to 2 hexes: 2 * S
Up to 4 hexes: S
That means a typical artillery unit of 8 guns(S=8) has an individual thread value of 16 at 1-2 hexes and 8 at 3-4 hexes distance.
You see at 3-4 hexes the threat value will be half as high as it is at 1-2 hexes.

Threat Value from Cavalry:
Up to 2 hexes: (3 * S) / 100
Up to 4 hexes: (2 * S) / 100
Up to 6 hexes: S / 100
That means a typical cavalry unit of 200 men(S=200) has an individual thread value of 6 at 1-2 hexes 4 at 3-4 hexes and 2 at 5-6 hexes distance.
You see at 5-6 hexes the threat value will be 1/3 and at 3-4 hexes 2/3 of the thread value at 1-2 hexes.

The limitations are that a unit only threatens other units in its firing arc, so outside of it they pose no threat.
Routed and Disordered units also don't pose any threat.


The calculation of the probability of a successful formation change goes like this:
20 * M / (20 * M + T)
T is the overall threat value in this hex(what is the sum of all the individual Threat Values in that hex) and M the number associated with the Moral of the unit in that hex that attempts the formation change.
A+++ = 9
A++ = 8
A+ = 7
A = 6
B = 5
C = 4
D = 3
E = 2
F = 1
Taking the infantry unit from above with its threat value at 1 hex of 16 and a unit in that hex with a Moral of C the calculation would be:
20 * 4 / (20 * 4 + 16) = 0,833
So it would be 83%(rounded down I assume)

Basically the player should look how far the enemy is away and by that he already sees if there is even the chance that the change could be impacted by the enemy.
So if the enemy infantry is more than 2 hexes, artillery more than 4 hexes and cavalry more than 6 hexes away they will not interfere with the formation change.
But if he has to make a change within a threatened hex he should consider bringing some distance between him and the enemy as that will lower the enemies threat value.

You can get the full explanation in the user manual starting at p.19



Now about the Fanatics, nothing in the user manual and the program manual only mentions this:
"Fanaticism Value: the increase in Morale that certain specified units receive."
But I also assume that this will only impact moral checks, anything else wouldn't make sense as you could have set the moral value right away higher.
I guess the Russian campaign is a good example, the quality may not allow to set them to a higher moral level but in terms of holding out the Russians simply needed something to "pimp" them.
Author:  Andy Moss [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
Yes.... I couldn't have said it better myself :oops:
Author:  Compass Rose [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
Thanks for all of the feedback guys. It is greatly appreciated and very helpful!
Author:  Sellick Davies [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
Jim Pfleck wrote:
Yes Christian, please give us a mathematical understanding of why wine is good. We cannot trust the English with these sorts of things :scottishduh:


As an Englishman I resent this slur. We have grown vines since we allowed Rome visiting rights. Snails, of course, are another matter, as are frogs thingies.
There is nothing quite like chewing the sludge of a decent (Australian) wine :wink:
Author:  S_Trauth [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanatical Units
...not to mention a fair amount of sausages -or maybe using the native language of the royal family of the Elector Hannover: Bratwurst

Bon Appetite die drittelgeorg Lemminge :boese: :frenchwink:
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