Andy Moss wrote:
And a unit actually stacked with leaders has apparently a greater chance of recovery
Not in my experience
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| Recovery From Disorder https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17754 |
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| Author: | Alexey Tartyshev [ Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Recovery From Disorder |
Gentlemen, A question has been raised regarding the probability of disorder recovery and the likelihood of re-order, depending on the command chain in place. I ran some numbers crunching based on sections 5.4.1 and 5.4.5 of the manual. While there remains some minor uncertainty (the calculations can be structured slightly differently), the outcomes are broadly consistent either way. For your reference and planning, here are the probabilities to consider for the following command chain scenarios Brigade > Division > Corps > Army: __________________________________________________ Detached unit → 1/6 (one chance out of six) Brigade > unit → 1/4 Division > B > unit → 1/3 Corps > D > B > unit → 1/2 Army > C > D > B > unit → 2/3 __________________________________________________ These assume the most common command ratings found in majority of sncarios: Brigade = E Division = D Corps = C Army = B Bottom line: keep in mind that a detached division deployed on the defensive will struggle to maintain ordered ranks under consistent pressure and will be unable to sustain momentum on the offensive by rotating disordered units. A division under a detached corps leader already has a decent chance (50%) of maintaining order on the defensive, and can also sustain offensive momentum by rotating brigades on the attack. Always study your command chain before battle, and pay attention to leaders’ command ratings — some divisional and brigade commanders may have exceptional ratings above standard. These formations are the candidates for flanking maneuvers or for holding remote sectors, capable of prolonged action even out of command. A classic example would be Davout’s corps in the Ausrterd scenario from 1807 title. Finally, be aware of losses in the command chain — the loss of a brigade leader and the appearance of the anonymous colonel (command rating F) will reduce the re-order probability from 2/3 to 1/2, even when the full command chain of A > C > D > B is present. If the division the anonymous belongs to is detached, then the chances are only 1/5 even whith Divisional commander present. This means brigade leaders should be used in melee only when it is absolutelty critical. |
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| Author: | Alexey Tartyshev [ Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
the link to the calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true |
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| Author: | Steve Simenic [ Mon Aug 18, 2025 4:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Very interesting analysis, thank you for sharing Alexey! |
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| Author: | Andy Moss [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
And a unit actually stacked with leaders has apparently a greater chance of recovery |
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| Author: | Steve Simenic [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Andy Moss wrote: And a unit actually stacked with leaders has apparently a greater chance of recovery Not in my experience
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| Author: | Andy Moss [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 4:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Steve, that is certainly my experience also but see this thread at WDS: https://forum.wargameds.com/viewtopic.p ... 354#p22354 |
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| Author: | Mike Davies [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Really interesting thread, thanks all. Keeping units together can be tough to track in the heat of battle. the command radius button can be really helpful assessing your command structures mid battle. |
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| Author: | Alexey Tartyshev [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Andy Moss wrote: Steve, that is certainly my experience also but see this thread at WDS: https://forum.wargameds.com/viewtopic.p ... 354#p22354 Ah.. this is about the recovery from routing. Then, yes stacking a leader may help if the leader has a greater Leadership rating. The calculator above is on disorder recovery. |
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| Author: | Alexey Tartyshev [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Mike Davies wrote: Really interesting thread, thanks all. Keeping units together can be tough to track in the heat of battle. the command radius button can be really helpful assessing your command structures mid battle. Absolutely! The "C" hotkey should be part of the routine before completing the turn and going through each division’s deployment. In fact, it works even better if the command range assessment is done before units are moved, to estimate the maximum effective range of each division from its Corps commander. |
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| Author: | Steve Simenic [ Wed Aug 20, 2025 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recovery From Disorder |
Andy Moss wrote: Steve, that is certainly my experience also but see this thread at WDS: https://forum.wargameds.com/viewtopic.p ... 354#p22354 I was being facetious at the time, as any opponent of mine will know I'm pretty hard on my troops  However, I was also thinking of this thread: https://forum.wargameds.com/viewtopic.php?t=3769 TheGrayMouser claims that the unit does not need to be stacked - only within command range. And rule 5.4.5 does not reference proximity to leaders (although one can infer units must be within command range to gain benefits). So my understanding is that proximity doesn't play any factor in recovery from disorder (apart from being within command range). These checks only use the Leader Command Rating (if Command Test was passed). Note that the unit's quality/morale appears to be irrelevant for this check; now it's about a commander's ability to reorganise the unit, not about the unit's ability to keep order (quality). A Brigadier General has rating E (2); if the Leader has passed his test, the unit will have a 50% chance of recovering (2+1 = 3 or less on 1d6 = 50%). This rule does not reference any higher-level commanders, so stacking a disordered unit with a Corps or Army commander should have no effect; only the unit's immediate commander is considered, and doesn't need to be stacked. Note that this is different to routed units (rule 5.4.9), which considers not only stacked Leaders but also those in adjacent hexes. |
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