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| Advanced Guard ? https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6637 |
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| Author: | Yann Bosc [ Sun May 22, 2005 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Advanced Guard ? |
What is exactly the advanced Guard in Austrian Army ? I didn't know where to ask for the question. I hope it is the good place to do. Regards 2nde Lt Yann Bosc I Armee Korps Austrian Army |
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| Author: | David Guegan [ Sun May 22, 2005 11:28 am ] |
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Look forward and may be you will see them...[:D] Otherwise stay in the rank with the "not so advanced"...[;)][:D][}:)][:D] <font color="green"> <b>Général de Division David Guégan Comte de Toulon, Duc de Nimes</b> Co 11eme division III Corps, AdN Co Division d'Infanterie de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale 
http://home.earthlink.net/~davidguegan/</font id="green"> |
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| Author: | Francisco Palomo [ Sun May 22, 2005 11:30 am ] |
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Yann, When Archduke Charles re-organized his army after the Eckmuhl debacle, he created a mixed corps of cav and Lt Inf to observe the Danube crossings and screen the deployment of the rest of the Austrian Army. Regards, Paco <i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo <i>Comte de Marseille Duc d'Abrantes</i> |
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| Author: | Philbert [ Sun May 22, 2005 1:48 pm ] |
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<b>What is exactly the advanced Guard in Austrian Army ? </b> If you pop open the organization function of Campaign Wagram, you will find the Advance Guard (L'Avant Garde) comprised of 4 brigades-containing a mixture of cavalry, light infantry, and line infantry-with accompanying artillery batteries and supply wagons. As Marachal Palomo states, its function is to provide a screen for the main body of the Austrian Armee... Feldmarschall-Leutnant Philip Roubaud Kommandant Vienna Militärakademie Imperial Armee of Austria |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Sun May 22, 2005 3:41 pm ] |
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And really it was more or less a concept that wasnt new either. The 1806 Prussians had Advanced Guards in each of their armies. Prince Louis was killed leading the Advanced Guard at Saalfeld. Rothenberg says: "While the corps designations remianed there was now a single army advance guard commanded by Klenau." (pg. 189 Napoleon's Great Advesary) This formation fought at Aspern-Essling in the sector of the line facing the Granary. It was a small formation of three cavalry regiments (Hussar #10, Uhlan #2), 1st Jager Bn., IR #3 and one 6 pdr cavalry battery (6 guns). Later on at Wagram we see the Advance Guard commanded by FML Armand v. Nordmann (Bowden - Armies on the Danube - pg. 203). By then it had been enlarged. It now contained four brigades of mixed troops. First brigade: 11 bns. - 1 Brigade battery Second brigade: 8 bns. - 1 Brigade battery Third brigade: 2 bns. - 1 cavalry regt. - 1 Cavalry battery Fourth brigade: 2 bns. - 2 cavalry regts. - 1 Cavalry battery Now while this sounds alot like a modern Kampfgruppe setup the problem is you have cavalry SUPPORTING infantry and not being able to wheel and deal. That was the major knock of this Advance Guard concept and really on how the Austrians used their cavalry. The corps commanders asked for more cavalry after the Eckmuhl retreat. The cavalry corps had to give up some regiments and thus weakened their ability to be an impact on the battlefield. Another issue is the way that the regiments fought which was by regiment and not brigade. Yes, they fought in squadrons but they were not committed in brigade fashion. Rather they would attack in support of infantry and never do you see them used in an attempt to rupture the French lines. Another wonder about the Austrian army is that they had the best trained and most experienced light troops in Europe: the Grenzers. And they used them in COLUMN for the most part! Used to fighting in the rough terrain of the Balkans against the Turks they were relegated to formations rather than used as light troops. Only on rare occaisions were they deployed in that role during 1809. Thus while you have this fine formation called a Advanced Guard they really were more of a "Corps d'Observation" and not much of a Advanced Guard in the strictest sense of the word. We picture them leading the army when in fact they were mainly an ad hoc flying column, something that we find General Mack doing in 1805. The concept of combined arms was there but not used in the right fashion. I take issue with those that say that the cavalry could not be used in a support role. Actually you have to have some supporting cavalry to counter the corps cavalry that the French had. To put ALL of the cavalry into the cavalry corps was not the answer. Probably the best thing was to put the cavalry in a corps brigade like the French did. Thus they have a cavalry role and are commanded by someone that is a cavalry officer. Most of the light divisions of the Austrian army were NOT cavalry officers. I made up an OB for Eckmuhl that has the Light Divisions reorganized into light infantry and cavalry brigades. It really is an interesting OB to use. The Prussians had it right when they made up the corps of 1813-1815. Having a cavalry brigade attached was probably the best use of cavalry for the period. The reason: though large formations of cavalry COULD deliver the coup de grace you rarely saw it in the Napoleonic Wars. You did see cavalry divisions in use in large scale attacks but if you examine most of them they didnt win the battle. Keeping a RESERVE of cavalry was always smart in case you busted your opponent. Jena is a good example of this. You just didnt see it happen that much other than this one case. Most armies could put up a good enough rearguard to stop the enemy cavalry from getting the advantage. OR the cavalry were worn out from the battle. Borodino is a good example of this. There really wasnt much of a French cavalry reserve that could have tried to attack Kutusov's columns as he retreated because he had the Cossacks and his own cavalry to deter them. Even in 1813 where large groups of cavalry roamed the German countryside the French were able to hold them off - they didnt win the campaign in one single stroke with a 1806 type pursuit. Thus the day of the cavalry on the battlefield was coming to a close by the Napoleonic wars, would be used for some time to come but with disastrous results mainly. They would still and still are used as scouts for the army (Afghanistan 2001) or in mountainous areas for transport but the helicopter can reach places faster in many cases and deliver troops to contest a narrow defile, etc. Oberst Wilhelm Peters 2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army |
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| Author: | PAW1800 [ Tue May 24, 2005 4:59 pm ] |
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Tell the truth! It is cannon fodder for the French! (or Forlorn Hope, or poor suckers who get shot 1st!) hehehehe Cheers, <b><font color="gold">Lt. </b></font id="gold">Paul Wakeman <font color="beige">2nd Light Rgt</font id="beige"> <font color="orange">2nd Brigade 22nd Saxon Division <b>VII Saxon Corps</font id="orange"> <font color="red">Armée du Rhin</b></font id="red"> Paul_Wakeman@yahoo.com |
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