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Blocking Blucher?
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7780		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Lord Jim [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Blocking Blucher?
Gents,
I am sure this has been covered before, but no amount of searching has come up with the answer.
In HPS Waterloo scenario is there any consensus as to how far the French player (who is not supposed to know of the Prussian advance) can move units East to block this [?]
Obviously allowing the French a free hand would ruin the whole scenario, so is there a rule of thumb to what is acceptable in historical terms [?]
Regards,
LJ
Author:  Gary McClellan [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Actually, with the larger map, I'd like to see them try. To block the Prussians, they'd have to deeply divide their forces, especially since the Prussians have 2 fairly divergent entry points. I've never looked to see what the entry hex protection range is, but that's another factor anyway.

BTW, please include your army/unit in your posts (just put cadet status in whichever army if that's appropriate)

FZM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C
Author:  SLudwig [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
It is typically settled in any pre-start arranged agreements and I would assume you would not be able to impose it on someone mid-game unless they agree.

An example is I am playing full Waterloo with Barret, and he agreed pre-game to fix the Guard on certain terms, even though it is not fixed in the game.

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Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Heer am Niederrhein

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

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Author:  SLudwig [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh just clicked profile, hello Darran!! I just saw that was you!! [:D]

Gary, he hasn't joined yet, here at least, he has been posting for historical advice and game advice. [:)]

Of course Darran if you wish to join, Prussia would be glad to have a guy like you!! [:D]

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Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Heer am Niederrhein

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

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Author:  Lord Jim [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry Gary, as Scott say's i have not joined any army yet, i am just after advice/information at the moment [:)]
Thank you for your comments,
LJ
Author:  Andy Moss [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:33 am ]
Post subject: 
In HPS blocking the Prussians is not an issue. In Bg it was a very serious issue - smaller map; only a limited area in which to enter which is easily defended by the Guard skirmishers; melee the skirmishers in the woods and you disordered. In HPS all you can do is delay, and that means detaching good troops which are better employed sticking it to Wellington.

Generalissimo
Opolchenie Korpus
Russian Army
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
And with the single phase (carrying on where Andy left off) you can push those skirmishers out of the way and keep coming.

The day of the super skirmisher (happily) is over.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lord Jim</i>
<br />Sorry Gary, as Scott say's i have not joined any army yet, i am just after advice/information at the moment [:)]
Thank you for your comments,
LJ
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The advice isn't FREE, you know![:D]

You can pay in French franc's![;)][;)]

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
GdD,1e Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">
Author:  Lord Jim [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I do understand your comments, but if you are playing historically, then any French movement far to the East, even a few Cavalry could slow the Prussians at choke points to seal Wellingtons fate.
I think a simple "no farther East than certain hex row" would help solve this!
LJ
Author:  Andy Moss [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well the map is too big for the French to cover all options in force. You can get behind Wellington; come up on his flank or get round the rear of the French. A few skirmishers or squadrons will simply delay road movement but in single phase they merely get isolated and destroyed and you move on. You don't disorder formed units by meleeing skirmishers in villages or woods in HPS which to me is the biggest advantage over Bg. Perfectly legitimate. My problem is actually getting the Prussians to release!

Generalissimo
Opolchenie Korpus
Russian Army
Author:  Lord Jim [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:02 am ]
Post subject: 
My point again is that Nappy didn't know Blucher was coming, so if you are interested in a more historical game there should be NO French troops of any description delaying the early Prussian advance. I am sure we have all played games that have come down to the last couple of moves, a few MP's lost here and there can be vital!!
Anyway does anybody know anything about this "protection hex range" Gary is talking about[?] (see earlier post)
LJ
Author:  Gary McClellan [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Protection Range is something that's in most of the HPS games (not just the naps)

In short, any units within a certain # of hexes of a reinforcement entry hex (usually 5-8 IIRC) will automatically ROUT when enemy reinforcements come onmap. In short, any attempt to defend the enemy reinforcement hex "close" won't work.

I don't recall what the protection range is in Waterloo.

FZM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:41 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lord Jim</i>
<br />My point again is that Nappy didn't know Blucher was coming
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Whyever not? He knew Blücher was out there at Wavre, not half a day distant, for a start. He personally saw the Prussian advance guard debouch from the forest at 1 PM and sent Count Löbau east with the VIe Corps. The historical scenario (BGW) starts at 11:30 AM. So this would mean the French player would have to pretend to not know about the Prussian advance for a mere 5 turns.

Even then, there would be room for the argument that a more cautious Napoleon could have guarded that right flank from the start. Afterall, the Prussians did not surprise parachute on his right flank.

<center>
D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, Maréchal d'Empire
Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie
Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant la Brigade de Grenadiers de la Moyenne Garde
Image</center>
Author:  Mike Cox [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lord Jim</i>
<br />if you are interested in a more historical game there should be NO French troops of any description delaying the early Prussian advance. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The same thinking leads to a requirement for a massed cavalry charge by Ney in the early afternoon, or a mandatory fixation on taking the various farms and a stand by the Guard to end the game.

With the HPS maps there is enough room to maneuver. The Prussians can arrive along various paths and if the French are covering all possible axes (sic?) of advance with more than a token force, their chances are worse against Wellington.

The historicity <font size="1"><i>(Now I'm making up words)</i></font id="size1"> is in the set up and providing the players with options. Napoleon <i>could</i> have done this, or Bluecher <i>could</i> have done that. Once the first unit moves, the guarantee of matching history is off.

<b>Général de Division Michael Cox</b>
<font size="4"><i>Principe <font size="1">della </font id="size1">Toscana</i></font id="size4">
Comte de Moselle
Image
<i><font size="4">Armée du Rhin</font id="size4">
<font size="2">2e battallion, 1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Pied, Inf. de l'V. Gde.</i></font id="size2">
<center>Image</center>
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:43 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mike Cox</i>
The historicity <font size="1"><i>(Now I'm making up words)</i></font id="size1"> ...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hey! I've been using this word for years! [:0]

<center>
D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, Maréchal d'Empire
Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie
Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant la Brigade de Grenadiers de la Moyenne Garde
Image</center>
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