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British Oddities https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7808	Page 1 of 1

Author:	D.S. Walter [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:45 am ]
Post subject:	British Oddities
From "Promotion by Brevet", by Maj. Gen. F. S. G. Piggott, Colonel Commandant, R.E., in: Army Quarterly 58 (1949), p. 97-104. (Promotion by Brevet was substantive promotion in the army, but not in the corps, i.e. usually the regiment. It was introduced by Wellington in the Peninsula campaign and became a Royal Prerogative under G IV.) ... "Young officers ... were taught how to solve some of the problems that arose from the operation of the brevet system. For example : Major (1910) and Brevet Lieut-Colonel (1913) A., with Major B. (1908), both gunners, leave their barracks in uniform and walk to call on a neighbouring infantry battalion. Who takes the sentry's salute on leaving the artillery barracks, while walking through the town, and when entering the infantry barracks, respectively? The answer is Major B. on leaving, and Lieut-Colonel A. in the town and on arriving at the infantry barracks. Elementary, of course ..." (p. 98; I love that last comment. [:p]) "The best-known anomaly of all, which intrigued everyone, was the case of the major of an infantry battalion with a brevet lieut.-colonelcy of an earlier date than that of the substantive rank of each of the commanding officers of the brigade. Naturally he took command of the brigade when the brigadier was away, as he was the senior officer, <i>in the army</i>, in the brigade." (p. 99) And on the further complication of "delayed action", where subalterns were given brevets to become effective after their promotion to a field officer rank: "There was one remarkable instance of this in the First World War which, from memory, ran as follows in the <i>London Gazette</i>: 'Lieutenant (acting Lieut.-Colonel) (temporary Brigadier-General) D. to be brevet Major on promotion to the rank of Captain.' In this multiplicity of ranks the brevet system introduced an element of stability ..." (p. 99; I can only imagine!! [:D]) How these people ever got to run an Empire is sometimes beyond me. [8D] <center> D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, MarÃ©chal d'Empire Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'ArmÃ©e du Rhin Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'ArmÃ©e du Rhin Commandant la Brigade de Grenadiers de la Moyenne Garde </center>

Author:	Ernie Sands [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:37 am ]
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[:D][:0][:p] <b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands GdD,1e Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR President, Colonial Campaign Club </b></font id="gold">

Author:	Bill Peters [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:55 am ]
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Sheesh, its the British army after all! [:D] Stiff upper lip and all that, what?[;)] Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Author:	Philbert [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:08 am ]
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<b>How these people ever got to run an Empire is sometimes beyond me.</b> Family connections... General der Kavallerie Philip Graf Roubaud Kommandant Vienna MilitÃ¤rakademie Imperial Armee of Austria

Author:	WillieD13 [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:30 am ]
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You want odd, look at George Armstrong Custer. He graduated from West Point in June 1861, and by June 1863 was appointed as a Brigadier General of volunteers, and took command of a Brigade. Then in July of 63 was breveted to Major in the U.S. Army. In Oct of 64 he was back to being breveted to Major General of Volunteers,in command of a Division for the rest of the war. Ensign William Davis 23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers 4th British Brigade Anglo-Allied Army

Author:	D.S. Walter [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:45 am ]
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Ah, the American brevet system is not half the fun. American brevet is simply an honorary rank--you get addressed with it and get the insignia, but not the pay that would come with substantive rank. That's all. And then there's volunteers and regulars, and that's it. No more than four ranks, all told (substantive regular, brevet regular, substantive volunteer, brevet volunteer, in rough descending order of value; for a regular army officer avoiding to become a brevet brigadier general of volunteers was nearly impossible provided he lived through the war [;)]). Now in the British army, you could get substantive, acting, temporary, local, brevet rank and I am sure I am still forgetting something. We already had brevet (rank in the army, but not in the corps, that's as odd as it gets for me, you need the British regimental system to even understand this). Now I really like local. It means you would be, say, a Lieutenant-General on the Peninsula, but only a Brigadier-General in Britain. Lots of fun. Temporary is also nice. It's like acting, only with the duration set in advance. Of course, this all really becomes fun where people with different sorts of rank meet under different circumstances. This day, in North America, I might rank you. But half a year later, when we meet in London, you may rank me, even though nothing else has changed. And, ah, I totally forgot militia rank. Imagine the fun when a Brigadier-General of militia, in command of six battalions, is joined by even the smallest regular detachment. Unless his regular army rank is higher, the blasted regular captain is in charge of the whole. [:D] <center> D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, MarÃ©chal d'Empire Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'ArmÃ©e du Rhin Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'ArmÃ©e du Rhin Commandant la Brigade de Grenadiers de la Moyenne Garde </center>

Author:	Mark Eason [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:59 am ]
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Gentlemen Britain secured an Empire because of, (not in spite of), this ingenious system. Being a small island nation, military conquests to establish an Empire were clearly a non-starter. That is not to say there were no feats of arms; each of which, whether victory or defeat, were equally lauded as the greatest successes of the day[;)] However, these military ventures were of no consequence in terms of establishing an Empire. The Empire was established by confounding, bamboozling and utterly bewildering the indigenous population of all territories visited, through the introduction of bureaucracy, (such as the brevet system), in every walk of life. This invasion of 'Red-Tape', (the true origin of the thin red line), ingeniously devised by the lifers in the Civil Service corps, so confused the locals, that they assumed such incomprehensible systems must have been the work of a higher order intellect. Nervously at first, then with gathering momentum, they introduced these practices to their own way of life. Et voila! They became so tied up in the bureaucratic madness, that they became subservient to Britain as they sought a route out of the mess that we had foisted upon them. And that, gentlemen, is the way we established and ruled an Empire [:D] Mark

Author:	Bill Peters [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:08 am ]
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mark Eason</i> <br />Gentlemen Britain secured an Empire because of, (not in spite of), this ingenious system. Being a small island nation, military conquests to establish an Empire were clearly a non-starter. That is not to say there were no feats of arms; each of which, whether victory or defeat, were equally lauded as the greatest successes of the day[;)] However, these military ventures were of no consequence in terms of establishing an Empire. The Empire was established by confounding, bamboozling and utterly bewildering the indigenous population of all territories visited, through the introduction of bureaucracy, (such as the brevet system), in every walk of life. This invasion of 'Red-Tape', (the true origin of the thin red line), ingeniously devised by the lifers in the Civil Service corps, so confused the locals, that they assumed such incomprehensible systems must have been the work of a higher order intellect. Nervously at first, then with gathering momentum, they introduced these practices to their own way of life. Et voila! They became so tied up in the bureaucratic madness, that they became subservient to Britain as they sought a route out of the mess that we had foisted upon them. And that, gentlemen, is the way we established and ruled an Empire [:D] Mark <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Oh oh oh!!! Oh oh oh!!! Sounds just like how the American political parties created am empire! [:D] Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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