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What happened on August 20, 1812? https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8266 |
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Author: | Kosyanenko [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:30 am ] |
Post subject: | What happened on August 20, 1812? |
August <font color="green"><b>20</b></font id="green"> old style, <font color="green"><b>September 3</b></font id="green"> new style. I may be wrong for a couple of days. Writing by the memory[:I] The rear guard under gen Konovtitzin was hardly pressednear the town of Gzhatsk (the one we have a what-if fight at). He a asked general-mayor Kreitz if the later agrees to cover the retreat even if all of his detachment (Siberian, Irkoutsk and Orenbourg dragoons and one cossacks regimens, plus two horse guns) will be killed. They covered the retreat, but were cut off the river crossing. Then Kreitz ordered to swim across the river Gzhat' which was made at once. Even both guns were saved - they were towed across the river bed! On the other bank when people had some rest a strong detachment of Bavarian cavalry showed in sight from 13 to 15 squadrons depending on the source. It was attacked with vigour. Up to 500 men were taken prisoners. Sometimes they also metion a standart, but I'm not sure. The story is according to Kreitz himself and Bogdanovitch, who used Kreitz' memoirs as one of the sources. All the others just rewrite it with different alternations. So the question is who were these bavarians and what was their loss in the action according to french/german sources? Anyone heard of this action? Date corrected. I'm sorry![:I] <center> ![]() <center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center> |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:05 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Polotsk? Bavarians were from VI Corps. Their losses were 6000 combined French/Bavarian according to Digby-Smith. Unless there is some other battle he doesnt name. It was near Vitebsk. Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
Author: | Kosyanenko [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:23 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Thanks, Bill, but no. It was neither Polotsk nor Vitebsk. It was much further to the East. Between Gzhatsk and Vyazma. Both these places are present on the maps for NRC, btw. And bavarians were not only in the VIth corps. 17th light cavalry brigade had two bavarian and one saxon chevauxlegers regiments, Bavarian cavalry division from IVth corps had 21st and 22nd brigades composed of two bavarian regiments each. <center> ![]() <center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center> |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:34 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Oh yeah, pard, Bavarians were in another corps as well to the north. Can you name it? Its NOT in the OB for NRC by the way. I painted this corps in 25mm miniature as a teenager. Westphalians were in the corps as well but wont name the other nationalities as it would give it away. Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
Author: | Kosyanenko [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:24 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Sure! III Reserve Cavalry Corps, 3rd Light cavalry division. 17th light cavalry brigade: 1st chevauxlegers regiment; 2nd chevauxlegers regiment Taxis; Prinz Albert chevauxlegers regiment (saxon). IV Corps, Bavarian cavalry division. 21st light cavalry brigade: 3rd chevauxlegers regiment Kronprinz; 6th chevauxlegers regiment Bubenhoffen. 22nd light cavalry brigade: 4th chevauxlegers regiment Kaiser; 5th chevauxlegers regiment Leiningen. Plus 1st horse artillery battery. I may have misspelled names of the regiments. You know, double translation, I used russian language oob's. They all are present in the oobs for NRC. <center> ![]() <center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center> |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
You actually missed an entire corps. This corps was in the north. It was composed of one Bavarian regiment. These units you list were with the main army. Give up yet? Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
Author: | Kosyanenko [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:37 am ] |
Post subject: | |
But they obviously were not present near Gzhatsk. I named only the regiments I know could be there. Give up? No way! You know Siberian dragoons (later uhlans) regiments is my favorite in the era. Don't know why, just the fact. It took me over 1,5 year to find a memoirs of one of it's members. Actually the chef - colonel (later major-general) Kreitz. These bavarians will sooner or later be identified. Just thought maybe someone already knows about them[:I] <center> ![]() <center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center> |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:32 am ] |
Post subject: | |
X Corps - Marshall MacDonald One Bavarian regiment (13th) One Westphalian regiment Polish regiments Prussian division Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
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