Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Jena without cloths
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8447		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Brucebear [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Jena without cloths
Well I know I will upset some people but Jena is a dissapointment. It is so slow (may be great for the experts) I thought we were trying to get NEW players not the same old names. A campaign opening game that takes three years for a normal person with a proper life to complete[?] Even in others Campaigns opening is 120 moves ( a year if you are fortunate). Perhaps too much notice has been taken of the "experts" and not enough of the "common man"

Marechal Bruce Hall
Comte d'Artois et Duc d'Arcole
Brigade de Lanciers de la Moyenne Garde,
CoS
L'armée du Rhin
Image
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Just one thought--there is no need to actually play out so many turns just because they are there. I have played several 534 turn Eckmuhl campaigns, but none so far lasted more than 150 turns or so. Also completed two Waterloo 388 turn games in about 50 to 100 turns. [:)]

<center>
D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, Maréchal d'Empire
Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie
Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant des Grenadiers à Pied de la Vieille Garde, "les Grognards"
Image</center>
Author:  Bill Peters [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Paco and Dean are on turn 250 or so in their test game.

I believe they started in May guys.

With the drag and drop method of movement (select hex with units in it and then ALT+right mouse button click them to destination) you can move an entire army in 5 minutes.

My turns to Bill Peterson often take less than 10 minutes.

But that is because I dont have to think to hard in order to beat him!!!

(and I have yet to beat him ... just punning around here)

You will find the 10 min. moves helpful in CLOSE situations where normally a 15 min. move would allow your opponent to get around your flanks. Gives you 1/3 more reaction space.

Termination bids are always good to use. In the big campaign at this point a Draw or worse for the French will help the Prussian. Any kind of win will send it to Halle. Bad path for Prussians.

The Short Campaign may be more to your liking. Only ONE scenario and a big map but MUCH shorter.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]
Author:  triolca [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Hello Sirs,

any other feedbacks about the Jena campaign ? I would be interested in more feedbacks about the "No melee elimination" and the 10 minute turns. Does it change the game play? Does some of your old tactics do not work anymore?

Thanks

Lt. Olivier Paviot
Armée du Nord - II Corps,
5e Division, 2nde Brigade,
25e Régiment de Ligne
Author:  Bill Peters [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:22 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by triolca</i>
<br />Hello Sirs,

any other feedbacks about the Jena campaign ? I would be interested in more feedbacks about the "No melee elimination" and the 10 minute turns. Does it change the game play? Does some of your old tactics do not work anymore?

Thanks

Lt. Olivier Paviot
Armée du Nord - II Corps,
5e Division, 2nde Brigade,
25e Régiment de Ligne
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Basically you will find that the enemy can no longer get around your flank as easily using a 10 min. move AND the NME rule really cuts down on the amount of eliminated units.

No more can opponents wipe out entire divisions in one turn.

Line remains the best formation for infantry. Columns still have their facing turned if defeated.

Basically a really good change to the system.

I HIGHLY advocate that you turn the Isolation rule ON when playing with the NME. That way some of the smaller units that are isolated/ZOC'd dont live for 3-4 turns.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]
Author:  dean beecham [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I think the changes in the game ,Make a more Historical turn out for battles..No more of this ZOC ...and no need to have any more house rules..

I know there will be some that still want house rules..But this is the first time in these games where you can just play and not have to think about ..Can he surround me for a ZOC....

So more Fun..And more Historical..[;)]....



<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant 1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  Michael Ellwood [ Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Having played around at it for a week or two I think the 10min turn is an improvement in the actual conduct and flow of the battles.

Best feature I believe is the new strength of the cavalry and its squadron useage. Combined with the multiple hex charge inf really are vulerable. Suddenly no inf attacking cav unless its a coordinated advance.

The command and control issues seem to give a good "national historical feel" result with disorder, rout and recovery.

My opinion is still forming on the small regt/bde arty units.

First impressions are pleasing and encouraging, will await a real opponent or two before making any bold statments [:D]

As for a campaign and a life.....both are more satisfying the more commitment and effort you put in [;)].

Maj Micheal Ellwood
König Regiment
1 Bde, 22 Div
VII Saxon Corps
L' Armée du Rhin
Author:  Bill Peters [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:40 am ]
Post subject: 
On something that Mike had to say - re: small arty sections.

Early on I decided to use the smaller sections but you will note that not ALL of the artillery (by far) went this path.

AND for those of you that HATE them I am going to release an updated OB with optional scenarios that will rid the game of them.

As the depth of scenarios offered ... I will convert several of them depending on the time I have to work on them. The main thing is you will have the OB for certain.

There will be a few corrections that I found but couldnt inact due to the huge amount of scenario work I had already done. Basically a few areas in the Prussian OB which was by far the harder to compile. There are wide differences on the composition of units and I dont have time to go into which ones. Basically in artillery and infantry composition.

Anyway, thought you guys would like to hear about the new OB. Its not like the ACW series where you have EVERY battery broken down ... while this may not seem as historical as their approach I tried to mix playability with historical accuracy. The result was my finest product by far to the gaming community.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]
Author:  Brucebear [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:28 am ]
Post subject: 
As expected the EXPERTS respond, my question is still will it attract new players[?]
Eckmuhl is still the best even before tinkering with the engine which suggests its the scn. not the engine

Marechal Bruce Hall
Comte d'Artois et Duc d'Arcole
Brigade de Lanciers de la Moyenne Garde,
CoS
L'armée du Rhin
Image
Author:  Al Amos [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Bruce,

I don't have the game yet so I can't really speak much about it.

I would hope there is a campaign that opens with the battle of Saalfeld. That should be a quick little battle to whet one's appetite.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons
Author:  Gary McClellan [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Bruce, it's a bit hard to not the the Experts to respond, since we won't see new players on this board until they've already been "caught" as it were.

Also, it's not the engine by definition, as the engines are largely the same (which will be NO differences as soon as the Eckmuhl 1.1 comes out).

The other thing you seem to be forgetting is that there is a way to play the game aside from the Campaign. Do the stand alone battles of Jena and Auerstedt also meet your disapproval?

FM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I think part of what Bruce is saying echos what I was saying before.

The game ships with three campaigs.

One that is the Battle of JEna and you have and option to start with the operational decision and play a 524 turn battle or a grand tactical decision and play a 120 turn (I think) battle. But either way it is a one scenatio campaign.

The second is the same as the first but with the Russians coming and no option for the shorter battle.

The third is the big granddady campaign with lots of scenarios and branches. The first battle is always 524 turns and then, if a major victory is not achieved, the meat of the campaign is entered into.

I really want to see an option for that this third campaign (called the Scharnhorst Plan Campaign) to start with the grand tactical decision so the first scenario is only 120 turns long. It would make the campaign a lot more accessible.

I am suprised that there is not another campaign that have a set of linked scenarios like Eckmuhl that starts with Saalfield and moves towards Jena/Auersted.

As for the engine changes, I like them a lot. I have been playing around a bit vs the AI and a solo head to head game and I think it is great with the 10 minute turns and the no melee eliminations rule. I am playing a battle of Saalfield PBEM and am liking it against a human too.

I am playing a 524 turn stand alone historical battle against Tomasz Nowacki, who was a playtester. He has explained to me how the No Melee Eliminations combines with the other rules.

I hope he or Bill could post some info on this.

As for the small Prussian Batteries, I think I like them. They do not have much pop and I am still not sure if they are just cavalry bait but there are not that many of them and they seem to fit the OOB well.

Am I an expert on Napoleonics? No. Am I an experienced HPS player with average skill in this club? yes.

regards,
Prinz Jim Pfluecke



Austrian Kavalry Reserve
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