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| Night Visibility https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8597 |
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Night Visibility |
I was wondering if some of you reenactors might have noticed to what degree you can see during a moonless night while out in "camp" during one of your reenactments. Can you see less than 100 meters or perhaps up to 200 meters? With the new PDT file format we can actually increase the nighttime visibility per DAY by using the weather line values. Thus a full moon night can be up to 300 meters, etc. The thought came to me that while you may not be able to distinguish uniforms you can at least see that SOMETHING is out there. Thus it would be nice if we could have a ? type unit when it is just outside of the night visibility range to at least let us know that something is nearby. Anyway, any info on this you guys can add in the better. Let me know if different times of the year mattered as well such as when their was snow or mud on the ground. During the latter portion of the Jena campaign the snow factor is present. Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
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| Author: | etrapanob [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:13 am ] |
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i> <br />I was wondering if some of you reenactors might have noticed to what degree you can see during a moonless night while out in "camp" during one of your reenactments. Can you see less than 100 meters or perhaps up to 200 meters? With the new PDT file format we can actually increase the nighttime visibility per DAY by using the weather line values. Thus a full moon night can be up to 300 meters, etc. The thought came to me that while you may not be able to distinguish uniforms you can at least see that SOMETHING is out there. Thus it would be nice if we could have a ? type unit when it is just outside of the night visibility range to at least let us know that something is nearby. Anyway, any info on this you guys can add in the better. Let me know if different times of the year mattered as well such as when their was snow or mud on the ground. During the latter portion of the Jena campaign the snow factor is present. Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> I suppose it all depends on the landscape Bill.I can tell you i spent enough time as a soldier out in the dark during my time.In woods or forest on a moonless night ,you could hardly see your hand infront of your face.I remember early in my career as a crewman in a reconaissance vehicle,when i was driver,i used to steer the tank through woods by looking up at the treeline either side of the track and trying to stay central.We had II sights but they werent real good back then.It was really to dark to see anything.Out in the open youd be lucky if you could see 50 meters.Remember Bill back in Napoleonic times there were not street lights as we have today.The lights from a town tend today tend to illuminate the skyline for many miles which reflects down onto open ground.Back then it would have been pitch black.With moonlight its possible to see quite some distance with the naked eye- |
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| Author: | Richard Hamilton [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
For the most part I think players push their troops hard enough as it is, so night should be reserved for resting - just like historically happened the vast amount of the time. Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon 21st Division VII Corps, ADR Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale 
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| Author: | Bill Peters [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Hamilton</i> <br />For the most part I think players push their troops hard enough as it is, so night should be reserved for resting - just like historically happened the vast amount of the time. Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon 21st Division VII Corps, ADR Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Actually its not for combat. Its for detection and to avoid ambushes. But mainly the moonlit nights give you more range of observation. Across the snow espeically. Bill Peters HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come) [url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url] |
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| Author: | Mark Oakford [ Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill, A moonless, cloudy night is dangerous. You're lucky if you can see more than half a meter in front of you - walking into a hole or a tree is a real possibility. On the night of a full moon and no clouds in the sky you can "see" almost a couple of hundred meters (shadows, mostly, the further away, the more you can't be sure exactly what is there). There are variations in between, depending on the weather and sky conditions. Actually, on a still night sound is your best friend. In pasture, you can hear hares running at least a hundred meters away. Larger animals can be heard moving a lot further away. Remember, most animals can see better than us in the dark and can move more quickly. Some are designed for it. Even if silent, large bodies of men can be heard from quite a distance away - several hundreds of meters if a large enough force - just their footsteps on the ground can be heard distinctly, even more so if they are in step. A tripping man, cursing in a normal voice, can be heard quite clearly from about 250 meters on a still night. On a stormy night, he couldn't be heard from 20 meters away. As an aside, during daylight, the distance is significantly less - we seem to switch off the sound parts and rely more on our vision. Wind and rain restrict hearing significantly. So does the bedding down of two armies that have recently been in contact. A stormy night is the best time to launch an assault. A stormy dawn is even better. Matters are down to the sword and bayonet quickly - too wet to reload and why bother. A loud noise immediately before charging home serves to 'stun' those awake and not knowing. Once they're running, it's Shiloh all over... I've tried to give the parameters for the full variation that could occur. Towns and cities (back when) would not throw the light shadows on the clouds as cities do now, so your best interpretation would most likely be that associated with being out in the countryside, far from the highways and street lighting. Aside from these comments, Bill, the best way to test any theories on this issue is by doing. Find a stretch of countryside (many k's from a big city) where the population density is somewhat small, but sort of like what you think it was like back then and step out in the fields in all types of weather. Night manoeuvres with some army types may be even more instructive. Regards General de Division Mark Oakford III Light Cavalry Division III Corps, ADN |
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