Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Melee Result
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8751		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MarcoRietveld [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Melee Result
I can't understand the melee results sometimes in the HPS games.
This is what I saw in the melee results dialog box:

Loss of 96 to defender and 106 to attacker
Defender loser
Effective attacking force of 1656(actual 1323)with leader
Effective defending force of 1018 (actual 1018)with leader
Modifier 60/20

I was expecting the defenders to win this one.
There was a way for the defenders to retreat so that can't be it.

Also I noticed that sometimes the High/Low Value casualties for the defenders or Attackers fall of the scale if you calculate the values using the info in the manual. The attacker have much better odds than you calculate in most cases. Is there some secret factor which isn't mentioned in the players manual ? I know the makers of these games don't like players to calculate the odds but it would be nice if the outcomes of melees would make some sense [:D]



Generaal-majoor Marco Rietveld
2e Divisie Commander
I Corps
Allied/Dutch Army
Image
Author:  Jeff Mathes [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Perhaps unit fatigue, morale of the attacker/defender played a factor as well.

Lieutenant Jeff Mathes
3. Ligne Regiment
1. Brigade 16. Division
V Corps
L'Armée du Rhin
Author:  MarcoRietveld [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:23 am ]
Post subject: 
I think that in case the number of casualties for the attacker are equal or higher to the defender, the defender wins. This is independent of morale fatigue etc. These factors are all calculated in the modifiers.

Generaal-majoor Marco Rietveld
2e Divisie Commander
I Corps
Allied/Dutch Army
Image
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Actually Marco, I prefer Jim Lundsford's comments on his Defend the Reich game. He gives you everything you need to know about the game (for those nuts and bolts guys out there).

What isnt documented is a second determination. Cant remember what it is but it determines the winner and loser of the melee. Its one of those hidden features that John hasnt posted yet. I truly wish he would as it does cause discussion every so often.

I prefer to see everything that went on in the combat so I know what happened.

What I TRULY appreciate about John's approach is that he gets away from alot of games where you can whittle it down to "I have a 2/3 chance of winning the melee" as per the old SPI/AH chart style. The High and Low combat calculations truly cut down on the calculating player.

Every so often 50 men can stop 500. Doesnt happen that often and more likely the attacker will just take more losses than the defender but take the hex.

Losses in the series in melees are too high. I would like to see in particular the cavalry losses cut down when its cav vs. cav. Most of the time they just tried to cut off each other's fancy scarves.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]
Author:  WillieD13 [ Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Or it could just be one of those crummy "die rolls" that pop up now and again. Sometimes things just don't go as planned, or expected, and strange things happen. History bears it out too. Look at the Alamo, or Thermopylae, where the numbers were heavily stacked against the defense, or Eban Emael where only 77 attackers captured the fortress.

Ensign William Davis
23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers
Image
Author:  MarcoRietveld [ Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:31 am ]
Post subject: 
I can understand that you sometimes can lose a melee when the odds are in your favour but in this case the outcome is simply wrong. There is something written in the manual that the losses the computer uses for defenders and attackers can be different than the losses shown in the game perhaps this was the case.

Generaal-majoor Marco Rietveld
2e Divisie Commander
I Corps
Allied/Dutch Army
Image
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