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Isolation
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8963		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  morvael [ Thu May 17, 2007 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Isolation
I don't like the isolation rule ("Units are Isolated if it is not possible to find a path from the unit to an edge of the map or to a friendly Supply Source that is free of enemy units or their Zone-Of-Control." because a unit surrounded by enemy on 4 hexes and having a water hex on the 5th hex and impassable river hexside on the 6th was still not isolated because I have not had ZOC on those river and water hexes. Surely, no unit, leader or supply could come and go through those two hexes but still the unit was not isolated... I would like to add to the rule the word "traversible" ie a path that at least an infantry unit coulg travel via.

Col. Dominik Derwinski (LoH, OCR, OE, CV, EM, MM)
Commandant de la Brigade
19eme legere Brigade de Cavalerie
5eme Division de Cavalerie
V Corps
L' Armee du Rhin
Author:  Bill Peters [ Thu May 17, 2007 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
To illustrate this more see:

http://www.fireandmelee.net/ja/Isolation_Example.zip

Its a game file for Jena. I found that if you have ZOCs surrounding the unit and that unit is against a river then it IS isolated.

If you dont have a full ZOC around the unit then its NOT isolated.

You are welcome to send me your game file Dominik. What game was this from? Do you have the latest update for that game? I dont think that the rule has changed much over the last set of updates.

Rich H. has been made aware of this but he is preparing for Tiller Con so I told him I would field this one.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, 5ème Division, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Image
Author:  morvael [ Thu May 17, 2007 8:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
The rule works exactly as you say: "If you dont have a full ZOC around the unit then its NOT isolated." but in a situation like described I think the unit should be isolated because it cannot go anywhere, the supply can't reach it and it should really feel abandoned and surrender.

I made a mistake, there were enemy units (E) on three hexes (all in columns, all facing S-E) and two hexsides were blocked by creek (C) and one by water hex (W), meaning one hex was free of ZOC but it was impossible to move to it or from it to the hex containing the unit (U).

<pre id="code"><font face="courier" size="3" id="code">
E
E C
U
E C
W
</font id="code"></pre id="code">

So using a term known on Paradox forums it's WAD not a BUG (WAD = Working As Designed). I'm only curious why was it designed that way...

This was the latest version of the engine. Say my hello to Rich :)

Col. Dominik Derwinski (LoH, OCR, OE, CV, EM, MM)
Commandant de la Brigade
19eme legere Brigade de Cavalerie
5eme Division de Cavalerie
V Corps
L' Armee du Rhin
Author:  Bill Peters [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Rich had this to say:

Nope, can't say that I have...and I can't think of too many hexes on our maps that would have the potential to recreate this. But it makes sense to have a non-passable hex create an isolated state.

....

So give us time and we will approach John about it. Until then ... just bring up some 12lb guns and wipe the unit off of the map! [;)][:D]

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, 5ème Division, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Image
Author:  morvael [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great, I hope this gets fixed one thay.

I had for a time isolated (I thought) an entire division by closing around them and blocking the bridge on their rear (in total an area of about 20-25 hexes) but of course not those damned hexes with creek or water. And being outnumbered 2:1 wiping out an entire division would help me a lot :)

So I guess any map with an impassable river may create such situation.

Col. Dominik Derwinski (LoH, OCR, OE, CV, EM, MM)
Commandant de la Brigade
19eme legere Brigade de Cavalerie
5eme Division de Cavalerie
V Corps
L' Armee du Rhin
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