Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Solo Scenarios
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9151		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Solo Scenarios
One of our customers recently pointed out that our games do not offer many solo scenarios, or in other words, those that are designed with scripts AND balanced towards the computer.

So here is a quick poll:

1. Would you be prone to play our games solitaire in part if the AI were better? This does not mean that you would quit playing in the club or Head to Head (HTH). Please list the percentage of games you would play solitaire if the AI were enhanced.

2. Of the scenarios in Jena that were designed specifically to be played solo list those you have played, the outcomes (list it in perspective of the human player, i.e. Human Minor Victory), and whether you think that they were balanced and enjoyable.

3. Given what we have NOW (not a wish list please) was there something you saw in the scenarios that could be improved?

Any input you can give me will go a long way in determining how I approaching current and future work.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill,

I never play solitaire anymore now that I have found the gaming clubs, the problem was I played a number of years without knowing the clubs existed. It is fortunate that TS had a lot of scenaios I could play solo when I first started or I may have lost interest. I think the clubs are integral to enjoying the games fully. So yes it is important to have strong AI and good scenarios for solitaire while at the same time stressing that the enjoyments is even greater when playing against another person.

Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards
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Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Ed, can you put into answer form your responses for the poll? Sounds like you would play solitaire more if the AI were improved.

Have you tried out any of the solitaire Jena scenarios?

And if you have or do play the scenarios what could I have done better?

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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Author:  Vertigus [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />
3. Given what we have NOW (not a wish list please) was there something you saw in the scenarios that could be improved?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes, Graphics[:p]


As for the AI, i would give those solo scenarios a try, but i don't believe it would be challenging even for me. Right now the Artificial Intelligence is everything but intelligent. Units move unnecessarily(opportunity target), artillery limbers and unlimbers without reason, disordered units rarely recover. It gets boring really fast.

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Lieutenant Rafal Wertygus
Armee du Rhin
V Corps
16ème Division
1ère Brigade
3ème Artillerie à pied
Author:  General von Naujoks [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Why to play the AI? There are enough frogs out there to beat.

------------------------------------------------
General d. Infanterie v. Naujoks
Prinz von Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Kommandeur 1.Infanteriebrigade
Armee d. Niederrhein

"Mit Gott. Für König und Vaterland"

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Author:  dean beecham [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
1. Theres not many war games out there that have a good AI playing solo.The ones that are. can be worked out and after some time you can run rings around them... I can not see me playing these Solo. Playing agianst other players is much more fun.

2.I have not played any solo. apart from testing.

3.I would say Graphics . There are other games that have great graphics but the game play is no good. Here you have great long term game play. Thats the main thing.

Keep up your great work.[;)]

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant 1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  MarcoRietveld [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Would be nice if the AI was a bit better, especially to test a scenario before playing against a human opponent. Also sometimes you want to play a scenario in one evening or day which is almost impossible to organize against a human opponent. Now I hardly ever use the AI because of its poor quality.

Generaal-majoor Marco Rietveld
2e Divisie Commander
I Corps
Allied/Dutch Army
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Author:  John Sheffield [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I would certainly use the AI more if it was upgraded but not to the detriment of games against other members.

I have Jena but, due to there being not enough hours in a day, have not managed a game yet.





<font color="orange">Lieutenant John Sheffield
1st Btn/91 Regiment of Foot <font color="white">
[Argyllshire Highlanders]</font id="white">
6th British Brigade/4th Infantry Division/<b>
II CORPS / </b></font id="orange"><b><font color="red">ANGLO-ALLIED ARMY.</font id="red"></b>


<font color="yellow"> "Among these respectable warriors, the Scotch [Scots] deserve to be particularly commemorated; and this honourable mention, is due to their discipline, their mildness, their patience, their humanity, and their bravery without example."

"On the 16th and 18th of June 1815, their valour was displayed in a manner most heroic." </font id="yellow">
<font color="red">Viscount Vanderfosse.</font id="red">
Author:  legoflamb [ Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Only when I was fiddling around trying out new tactics. Generally I prefer to play people.


Fahnrich Jim Woods Jr
IR 15 Zach
Author:  Bill Peters [ Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:43 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dean beecham</i>
<br />
1. Theres not many war games out there that have a good AI playing solo.The ones that are. can be worked out and after some time you can run rings around them... I can not see me playing these Solo. Playing agianst other players is much more fun.

2.I have not played any solo. apart from testing.

3.I would say Graphics . There are other games that have great graphics but the game play is no good. Here you have great long term game play. Thats the main thing.

Keep up your great work.[;)]

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant 1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sorry Dean, graphics is not something I work on.

For all: limit responses to items that I did in the title. Game engine, graphics, TV set on the blink, not something I work on.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would play them more if the AI was better. As it is now, I tried the couple ones in Jena and still it was not good. If it was better, I would play them to try things out and try some harder to win battles against the AI.

Feldmarschall Jim 'Prinz' Pfluecke
Commander, Austrian Cavalry Reserve
3 Graf O'Reilly Chevauxleger Rgt
Hahn Grenadier Bn
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
99% HTH and 1% solo vs the AI.

I don't think you can have an AI that will equal the intelligence of playing a human. So, the enjoyment of playing a capable opponent would not be there, whether you win or lose.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, 1ère Brigade, 19ème Division, VI Corps, Armee du Rhin
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim Pfleck</i>
<br />I would play them more if the AI was better. As it is now, I tried the couple ones in Jena and still it was not good. If it was better, I would play them to try things out and try some harder to win battles against the AI.

Feldmarschall Jim 'Prinz' Pfluecke
Commander, Austrian Cavalry Reserve
3 Graf O'Reilly Chevauxleger Rgt
Hahn Grenadier Bn



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I tend to agree with you and Ernie. No matter how well we script the AI it turns out better to not use scripts at all and just set the AI settings in the Header to use the AI Orders (Extreme Defend, Normal Defend, etc.).

However, there are customers out there that dont want to play in clubs and funny enough do constitute enough sales to cause us to want to review the amount that we have in each game.

The main set we are talking about here are what I term "stock" scenarios. Those that you see when you open the battle engine and select from the list. As you know in my titles I dont put campaign scenarios in the main directory any more. Thus while Jena had over 400 scenarios total there were only a total of 44 "stock" scenarios or those that you would see in the Scenario Selection dialog.

Only 3 of the Jena scenarios besides the Getting Started scenario were intended to be played solo. I figure that I could look at several of the smaller actions and put some sort of scripting together or just use the AI Orders and just boost the VP count against the Human player.

Anyway, really appreciate the input from you fellers.



Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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Author:  MarcoRietveld [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Its perhaps not necessary for the AI to have a brilliant strategy but at least it should be able to have a decend attack of defence so you get an idea what the scenario is like. Now sometimes cavalry move straight into woods or cross streams.It seems the AI is moving random over the map. Also the AI tends to retreat no matter what threat there is. I can imagine that if you buy these games for the first time you probably stick to playing against the AI for a while before you think about joining a club and fight human opponents.



Generaal-majoor Marco Rietveld
2e Divisie Commander
I Corps
Allied/Dutch Army
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Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:18 am ]
Post subject: 
One note guys: according to Rich about 70 percent of our sales comes from guys that play solo. Some of them also PBEM but there is a large portion of them that NEVER transition over to PBEM mainly because they dont want to wait days and months to find out the outcome of a battle.

For us that play in clubs its hard to fathom but these folks spend money on the games and even though our product does not rate 5 stars on AI they continue to buy the titles. Like Rich I feel that its very important to cater to them as well as this group.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

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