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 Post subject: Artillery spiking hell
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 7:32 pm
Posts: 300
Location: USA
After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:59 am 
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From what you wrote, I can think of no clarification, ipso facto, ergo est, it must be a bug. I recommend you contact HPS tech support. They have answered satisfactorily every question I have sent them. It helps if you can send the file. And they are good at killing bugs.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:01 am 
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Did you continue to occupy hexes of all four batteries?

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:26 am 
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There is no double having, so a file is needed to debug.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:31 am 
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There is no double having, so a file is needed to debug.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:41 pm 
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So Rich...what do I not understand about spiking...here is the latest...I have spiked 12 guns and the tally on the victory screen shows that my opponent has lost only 60 points. My understanding is that captured guns are worth 60 points each and YOU MUST CONTINUALLY OCCUPY THEM. And that spiked guns are worth 30 points and <b>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OCCUPY THEM AFTER THE TURN OF SPIKING AND YOU SEE THE SPIKE LABEL ON THEM.</b> It occurred to me that maybe the victory screen doesn't post the points until the enemy has a turn to retake them but that wouldn't matter in spiking, only in capture and I actually occupied them for two turns following the melee when I original took them (as noted below at the end of this in response to General Whitehead's qustion). That is the point of spiking to deny their use to the enemy, either your own guns or those captured from the enemy. It appears to me that if I spiked them all that my enemy ought to loose points for them but no matter how you do the math the only thing that works out for 12 guns costing my opponent 60 points is that after spiking they are worth 5 points each?

My understanding must be completely wrong which is, of course, very possible. <font color="red">I found the passage in the documentation that explains artillery spiking and the values? But I can't find anything explaining capture per se and I also checked in the version update release notes and found no detail. All I know, or think I know, comes from the posts I searched for but given the result I have just observed in this game...those are not correct. </font id="red">

You mention a "debug" file is needed....so does that mean that you DO or DON'T need more information on this situation? I didn't take screen shots but I can take one in the next turn...also, what happens to SPIKED guns that are left behind? I presume they just sit there and it doesn't matter who passes through them...they are just useless...right? And unlike captured guns which the <b>original</b> owner gets a one tube per battery carry over in the next game, spiked guns are just gone. I think I read that.

In repsonse to General Whitehead below...yes I occupied the guns for TWO turns AFTER the turn I entered their hex via melee and captured them...on the second turn I spiked them, and on the third turn I was still sitting on the spiked guns...seems to me that would be enough to establish their destruction and I am not sure what occupying them if they are spiked would accomplish...spiking ruins the guns...capturing guns require occupation...I think[B)] This shouldn't be rocket science...just simple math...60 points for 12 guns? Instead of 240? This could be a difference between a minor and a major.

Thanks.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />There is no double having, so a file is needed to debug.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:54 pm 
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I need a file, not a screen shot.

Spiking is a simple concept. One turn after capture, you can spike. If occupied and spiked, the tube is worth 1/2 points. That's it. Spike guns cannot fire, or move, or be recrewed. Spiked guns are worth 30 points only in Gettysburg. Assuming that game has the patch. I think all the rest, would give spiked guns a value of 15pts. Please recall that tubes are worth 60 points in Gettysburg and 30 in all the rest, I think. So half of 30 would be 15. So 4x15 would be 60. Points are not delayed.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />So Rich...what do I not understand about spiking...here is the latest...I have spiked 12 guns and the tally on the victory screen shows that my opponent has lost only 60 points. My understanding is that captured guns are worth 60 points each and YOU MUST CONTINUALLY OCCUPY THEM. And that spiked guns are worth 30 points and <b>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OCCUPY THEM AFTER THE TURN OF SPIKING AND YOU SEE THE SPIKE LABEL ON THEM.</b> It occurred to me that maybe the victory screen doesn't post the points until the enemy has a turn to retake them but that wouldn't matter in spiking, only in capture and I actually occupied them for two turns following the melee when I original took them (as noted below at the end of this in response to General Whitehead's qustion). That is the point of spiking to deny their use to the enemy, either your own guns or those captured from the enemy. It appears to me that if I spiked them all that my enemy ought to loose points for them but no matter how you do the math the only thing that works out for 12 guns costing my opponent 60 points is that after spiking they are worth 5 points each?

My understanding must be completely wrong which is, of course, very possible. <font color="red">I found the passage in the documentation that explains artillery spiking and the values? But I can't find anything explaining capture per se and I also checked in the version update release notes and found no detail. All I know, or think I know, comes from the posts I searched for but given the result I have just observed in this game...those are not correct. </font id="red">

You mention a "debug" file is needed....so does that mean that you DO or DON'T need more information on this situation? I didn't take screen shots but I can take one in the next turn...also, what happens to SPIKED guns that are left behind? I presume they just sit there and it doesn't matter who passes through them...they are just useless...right? And unlike captured guns which the <b>original</b> owner gets a one tube per battery carry over in the next game, spiked guns are just gone. I think I read that.

In repsonse to General Whitehead below...yes I occupied the guns for TWO turns AFTER the turn I entered their hex via melee and captured them...on the second turn I spiked them, and on the third turn I was still sitting on the spiked guns...seems to me that would be enough to establish their destruction and I am not sure what occupying them if they are spiked would accomplish...spiking ruins the guns...capturing guns require occupation...I think[B)] This shouldn't be rocket science...just simple math...60 points for 12 guns? Instead of 240? This could be a difference between a minor and a major.

Thanks.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />There is no double having, so a file is needed to debug.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:50 am 
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Then perhaps there is no problem because my opponent tells me that he spiked one battery and possible two before I could? That would explain the points...I only really spiked one four gun battery and hence 60 points, BUT if he spiked his own other two batteries why would they show as captured? If I captured spiked batteries that HE spiked, wouldn't they have been label spiked before I entered for melee and were afterwards labeled "captured?" I give up. This is too damned confusing. I will just play and trust that the game engine is smarter than me. No one would probably argue with that.

One other thing...now that I am here...if one spike's one's own cannon do you lose points or just the use of the cannon?

Thanks.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />I need a file, not a screen shot.

Spiking is a simple concept. One turn after capture, you can spike. If occupied and spiked, the tube is worth 1/2 points. That's it. Spike guns cannot fire, or move, or be recrewed. Spiked guns are worth 30 points only in Gettysburg. Assuming that game has the patch. I think all the rest, would give spiked guns a value of 15pts. Please recall that tubes are worth 60 points in Gettysburg and 30 in all the rest, I think. So half of 30 would be 15. So 4x15 would be 60. Points are not delayed.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />So Rich...what do I not understand about spiking...here is the latest...I have spiked 12 guns and the tally on the victory screen shows that my opponent has lost only 60 points. My understanding is that captured guns are worth 60 points each and YOU MUST CONTINUALLY OCCUPY THEM. And that spiked guns are worth 30 points and <b>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OCCUPY THEM AFTER THE TURN OF SPIKING AND YOU SEE THE SPIKE LABEL ON THEM.</b> It occurred to me that maybe the victory screen doesn't post the points until the enemy has a turn to retake them but that wouldn't matter in spiking, only in capture and I actually occupied them for two turns following the melee when I original took them (as noted below at the end of this in response to General Whitehead's qustion). That is the point of spiking to deny their use to the enemy, either your own guns or those captured from the enemy. It appears to me that if I spiked them all that my enemy ought to loose points for them but no matter how you do the math the only thing that works out for 12 guns costing my opponent 60 points is that after spiking they are worth 5 points each?

My understanding must be completely wrong which is, of course, very possible. <font color="red">I found the passage in the documentation that explains artillery spiking and the values? But I can't find anything explaining capture per se and I also checked in the version update release notes and found no detail. All I know, or think I know, comes from the posts I searched for but given the result I have just observed in this game...those are not correct. </font id="red">

You mention a "debug" file is needed....so does that mean that you DO or DON'T need more information on this situation? I didn't take screen shots but I can take one in the next turn...also, what happens to SPIKED guns that are left behind? I presume they just sit there and it doesn't matter who passes through them...they are just useless...right? And unlike captured guns which the <b>original</b> owner gets a one tube per battery carry over in the next game, spiked guns are just gone. I think I read that.

In repsonse to General Whitehead below...yes I occupied the guns for TWO turns AFTER the turn I entered their hex via melee and captured them...on the second turn I spiked them, and on the third turn I was still sitting on the spiked guns...seems to me that would be enough to establish their destruction and I am not sure what occupying them if they are spiked would accomplish...spiking ruins the guns...capturing guns require occupation...I think[B)] This shouldn't be rocket science...just simple math...60 points for 12 guns? Instead of 240? This could be a difference between a minor and a major.

Thanks.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />There is no double having, so a file is needed to debug.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />After reading one post after another to finally try to understand all the ins and outs of artillery capture and spiking (still haven't found out where else it might be explained...like in the documentation?)...I successfully captured 4 batteries first being worth 240 points [4 x 60]. That was at the end of the turn of capture. On the next turn I spiked them and they were worth 120 points [4 x 30]. Ok, I understand that they were halved for spiking. On the 2nd turn after spiking I checked the score at the end of the turn and the same four guns were now down to 60 pts! What gives? I haven't seen any explanation, that I can remember reading anyway, where guns that were halved are then halved again?

I will check the updated manual and the version release notes again, but if anyone knows where else may reside a truly accurate and intelligible description of the how, when and effects of capture and spiking of guns I would be very grateful to learn of it.

I now know only these simple facts...capture is full points, you must occupy them to keep them and to use them and you can't move them and captured guns do not carry over as "yours" to the next game in a campaign. Spiking is done on the turn following capture and is worth 1/2 points and they can't be used or moved by either side. As far as the bizarre halving of a half...it beats the bushwa out of me...I sure would appreciate some kind of clarification.

Thanks.

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:06 am 
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Regardless of who spiked, the battery will say spiked, nothing else. Only the other side will gain points and only when the battery is occupied. No such thing as negative points.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:29 am 
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Colonel Ciampa,

May I suggest that you consider a War College article on this subject to help clarify for all Union members once you get to the bottom of it???

Regards,

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:18 am 
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Sure

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by laubster22</i>
<br />Colonel Ciampa,

May I suggest that you consider a War College article on this subject to help clarify for all Union members once you get to the bottom of it???

Regards,

Image
General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:56 am 
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Sure Rich if I DO get to the bottom of...I mentioned that my opponent told me that he spike one battery and "thought" he may have another. However, I attacked two batteries in the same turn of four guns each and when the melee was over, they were labeled "captured" so I don't see how he could have spiked them if he didn't occupy their hex...so 3 batteries of four guns each were involved, 8 tubes spiked and the result was 60 points....no way I can sort that out. At least not until I compile all the posts and discussions of spiking AND find wherever John Tiller has buried the documentation on spiking or more appropriately than "the how to spike" but "the who you do or don't and what points you get for doing what."

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />Sure

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by laubster22</i>
<br />Colonel Ciampa,

May I suggest that you consider a War College article on this subject to help clarify for all Union members once you get to the bottom of it???

Regards,

Image
General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:09 am 
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Aha!...Well, now we are getting somewhere...IF ONE HAS TO OCCUPY a spiked battery to get the points...well I didn't know that...I guess that is the problem with the total...I think at the moment I am sitting on a spiked, captured battery and I vacated one....I thought that you HAD TO OCCUPY a captured battery to both get the points and use it....I didn't know or realize is more like it, that one <b>also had to sit on a spiked cannon to get the points.</b> So like virtue being its own reward, I presume that one should be content to take the enemy's or one's own, gun out of action and not waste precious resources babysitting it for some points, and especially since it can't be unspiked or recaptured. In a long battle with limited lads, I supposed I would just as soon leave the spike battery and the points and use them men more productively...unless you can put some woefully and doomed undisrupted unit without a leader in sight on the hex to secure it.

The foregoing sentence would seem to explain the 60 v.s. 120 points....I will do an empirical experiment and stop squatting on the spiked, enemy battery I am currenty occupying and see if I lose the 60 points for that one too...when I do leave it...that would clear up this whole mess.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />Regardless of who spiked, the battery will say spiked, nothing else. Only the other side will gain points and only when the battery is occupied. No such thing as negative points.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
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Colonel Tom Ciampa
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2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:11 am 
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Location: USA
You can always spike your own arty, but they will say spiked. You don't "occupy" your own arty. Anyway, if you captured arty and they said captured, they were never spiked.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tciampa</i>
<br />Sure Rich if I DO get to the bottom of...I mentioned that my opponent told me that he spike one battery and "thought" he may have another. However, I attacked two batteries in the same turn of four guns each and when the melee was over, they were labeled "captured" so I don't see how he could have spiked them if he didn't occupy their hex...so 3 batteries of four guns each were involved, 8 tubes spiked and the result was 60 points....no way I can sort that out. At least not until I compile all the posts and discussions of spiking AND find wherever John Tiller has buried the documentation on spiking or more appropriately than "the how to spike" but "the who you do or don't and what points you get for doing what."

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />Sure

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by laubster22</i>
<br />Colonel Ciampa,

May I suggest that you consider a War College article on this subject to help clarify for all Union members once you get to the bottom of it???

Regards,

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/
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Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Tom Ciampa
Image
2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 6:24 pm
Posts: 140
Location: USA
Keep in mind, Tom, that you don't have to occupy the uncrewed or spiked battery continuously, only on the turn that the game ends, to get the points. So definitely don't waste men sitting around doing nothing, if you've got the guns behind your lines, you can return to them as the battle nears its close.

Gen. Matt Perrenod
<i>The Blue Ghost</i>
Commandant, United State Military Academy at West Point
5th Brigade, 2nd Division, VIII Corps, Army of the Shenandoah


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