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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:13 am
Posts: 23
Location: USA
The decision to add Forge of Freedom and Blue and Gray to the approved list of games that club members can play is one of the biggest decisions the club had made since the old club expansion debates of the late 90's.

I had no information on these newer games and have just checked out the websites. The games look interesting and could add increased interest to our play. One thing to note is that new games could even out the skill level between more experienced or more prolific club members with less prolific/experienced players. Two new games to be learned and mastered could even things out on the battlefield.

Here is an idea for the club: Designate certain days/nights in advance to be "all nighters" where a band of us could gather at our pc's and do a live multi game (i.e. 5 on 5) I know Rich H. has told me the hps games can be set up this way. Perhaps the new games can as well. I would relish the opportunity to sit by my pc all night with General Sands, General Laub et al. and battle the best the rebs have to offer.

Gen Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 6:24 pm
Posts: 140
Location: USA
This proposal will be a challenge for the training academies. Every time you add a new gaming system, the management of the training programs becomes increasingly complex. The challenge is to maintain a training staff of sufficient staff and diversity of training competence that you can respond immediately every time a new cadet comes along, while keeping the trainers busy enough that they're there when you need them.

The experience of the CCC in adding a low-demand set of games is sobering. It would be difficult, if we don't have a sufficient player demand and proficiency, to maintain a good training program.

If there is strong demand to play these games within the Club, I wouldn't stand in the way. I don't see that yet in this thread - Mark and Dierk appear enthusiastic, but I'm not seeing much more than that - yet.

How do we go about assessing demand? One thought - the title of this thread doesn't give that good a clue to what we're discussing - perhaps it should be changed to relect more clearly that we're talking about adding these two series into the mix.

Gen. Matt Perrenod
<i>The Blue Ghost</i>
Commandant, United State Military Academy at West Point
1st Brigade, 2nd Division, VIII Corps, Army of the Shenandoah


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:17 am 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 5:41 am
Posts: 873
Location: Somewhere between D.C. and the battlefield
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mperrenod</i>
<br />This proposal will be a challenge for the training academies. [...]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I am not sure it would even be necessary to offer training for these games as well. Technical intricacies of the game engine and tactical skills in the narrow sense don't quite play the same role on this level as in the BG & HPS games. They are more about common sense and strategic thinking.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If there is strong demand to play these games within the Club, I wouldn't stand in the way. I don't see that yet in this thread -
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Opportunity will create the demand. Once we allow the games, more people will consider acquiring and playing them, as they have an incentive to do so. If we ask people to get these games and play them before they even know whether the club will ever support them, that's asking for a hen to appear before there has been an egg.

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
3/2/VIII AoS
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:35 pm
Posts: 192
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Boyd</i>
<br />Okay, I will be the first rebel and state I would be <u>against</u> expanding the base of authorized games from something other then the BG & HPS format. This club for 10 years has coalesced around these two games successfully.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The club is much more than just a set of games. It's the <b><font color="yellow">American Civil War Game Club</font id="yellow"></b>, not the HPS/John Tiller Game Club.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes, the club is much more than just a set of games, but it's also not about any Civil War game (HPS and BG set high marks for ACW games). If that were the case we would have already authorized past games such as Sid Meier's Gettysburg & Antietam, American Civil War: From Sumter to Appomatox, God's and Generals, The History Channel's Civil War game "A Nation Divided", SSI's Gettysburg game that came out in the 1980s, etc.

The club is also not about the newest Civil War game on the block either. We shouldn't authorize any ACW game just because it's new, fun, and some members are bored playing the current games.

I suggest there need to be standards before authorizing a new game into the club. I think BG & HPS have done, and keep doing, the best job out there for trying to create as realistic a ACW game as possible...which is why most of us keep playing them. Any new ACW game should have similar standards. As far as I know there are no written standards for games in the club. Maybe a committee should be formed to review new ACW games, develop criteria, and make recommendations based on those criteria.

Also, if the majority of club members do not own any of the two proposed games then the majority of members will be voting on games they know little about.

Lastly, another suggestion would be to admit new ACW games on a probabionary period.

Regards,


Maj Gen Boyd Denner,
2nd Division Commanding
II Corps
ANV
"God Bless the Alabamians" Gen. Robert E. Lee - The Wilderness 1864


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:25 am
Posts: 777
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mperrenod</i>

How do we go about assessing demand? One thought - the title of this thread doesn't give that good a clue to what we're discussing - perhaps it should be changed to relect more clearly that we're talking about adding these two series into the mix.

Gen. Matt Perrenod

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Gen. Perrenod,

I'm open to suggestions. What would make it clearer?


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

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David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:25 am
Posts: 777
Location: USA
Officers of the Club,

Thank you for your comments. It is now time for voting.

This topic is being locked. Please refer to the 'Proposed Club Rule Change, Games - Voting' thread for instructions.


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

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David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army


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