ACWGC
* ACWGC     * Dpt. of Records       * CSA HQ    * VMI    * Join CSA    
   * Union HQ    * UMA    * Join Union     ACWGC Memorial
CSA Armies:    ANV    AotW
Union Armies:    AotT     AotC      AotP      AotS     Union Army Forums
     Link Express
American Civil War Books, Magazines and Games for sale (See other items)
Club Forums:     NWC    CCC     Home Pages:     NWC    CCC    ACWGC
It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:43 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Campaign game
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 61
Location: USA
How should A Campaign game be recored once for each battle or once for the whole campaign ?

Lt.Ernie Fantini VIII corp First division Second brigade
AOS


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm
Posts: 808
Location: USA
Each campaign battle should be registered in the DoR. The generic "campaign" choice is used and the title of the battle is listed in the comments section.When that battle is completed it is registered as ended and scored appropriately. When the last battle is ended, this should be noted in the "comments" section.

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 8:03 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: USA
I have a problem with the generic campaign game registration in the DoR. The correct campaign game should be identified and registered (and closed once there is capitulation, no more turns left, or the game is never going to be finished). If you use the generic campaign game registration then compiling statistics on the various scenarios (such as to try and identify balanced scenarios) is an impossibility. However, HPS has made the identification so difficult (the game should tell you somewhere specifically which scenario that you're playing but it doesn't) that the average gamer isn't going to go through that much to find out. You have to check with the text file and the editor and sometimes you still can't figure it out without just asking your opponent which option that they chose and they may not be willing to tell until the end of the game - and hopefully they remember by then. HPS didn't consider clubs needing to register games when they designed this engine and they haven't considered it as being worthwhile to warrant a patch.

Lt Gen Ned Simms
1/VIII/AoS/USA
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm
Posts: 808
Location: USA
I agree that the process for registering campaign games is clumsy but now that I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me anymore. To identify the campaign scenario that you are playing: After the first turn has been played, using Notepad, open the .cpf file, and the scenario name is listed under the Campaign title. I have never had a problem identifying the scenario. It's important to identify the last battle and the campaign outcome so that an appropriate campaign award won't be missed.

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:20 pm
Posts: 1151
Location: USA
General Simms is correct in that the various game designers did not follow a more standardized and easier method of scenario identification in their various titles. It can all be very confusing and frustrating for the newer players. The method that General Ringbloom outlines is still the best for the most accurate ID of the scenario; but there are still some limitations to even that. When you are dealing with the individual battles of a campaign, it should be just common sense to note a campaign battle in the initial selection and then leave as accurate a description as possible of the particular scenario in the comments section, mentioning which battle of the campaign the scenario represents.

General Jos. C. Meyer
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
acting Union Army Chief of Staff
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:15 am
Posts: 296
Location: Australia
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">HPS didn't consider clubs needing to register games when they designed this engine and they haven't considered it as being worthwhile to warrant a patch.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I don't know that this should be laid upon the company; I don't understand exactly why a club cannot add in campaign scenarios (as in for example - Vicksburg campaign scenario 1 .... you have to write down the number of turns, and then log the result as per whatever it is.) It doesn't really matter what scenario you are playing; as far as I understand the scoring system here is based entirely upon turns played and result.


<s>All that being said, what I don't understand about this club -is why this one doesn't award you anything for actually winning a campaign other than the points per the individual scenarios.</s>

Edited to add: - ok I read that maybe there is some sort of bonus, but I will note that this doesn't seem to be listed in the club rules as to what this is.

Col Stephen Trauth
AOT
XV Corps/3rd Division [1st Cavalry] 2nd Cavalry Brigade


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm
Posts: 808
Location: USA
Col. Trauth: There are specific Battle Medals and ribbon for winning HPS campaigns.

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 8:03 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: USA
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPS didn't consider clubs needing to register games when they designed this engine and they haven't considered it as being worthwhile to warrant a patch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know that this should be laid upon the company; I don't understand exactly why a club cannot add in campaign scenarios (as in for example - Vicksburg campaign scenario 1 .... you have to write down the number of turns, and then log the result as per whatever it is.) It doesn't really matter what scenario you are playing; as far as I understand the scoring system here is based entirely upon turns played and result.

Retort: You are correct if the only thing that you are interested in is getting points for your victory/defeat. However, if you want to track scenario results to determine if they are balanced then it is necessary to log the exact scenario that you are playing. The HPS campaign system makes it very difficult to do this as you go to the editor to become familiar with what battles the various choices will take you to, then determining from the game either from the battle, the game length, or the placement of troops/reinforcements to specifically identify which scenario that you are playing. The game itself should tell you somewhere what you are playing even if you have to dig a little bit for it but it either doesn't or HPS hasn't shared that knowledge with us yet. So, yes, I blame that on the company and would probably have made the same decision myself before introduction of the game because that knowledge allows your opponent to know that you have a certain division on the field or that reinforcements will be arriving from a certain direction, etc.

Lt Gen Ned Simms
1/VIII/AoS/USA
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:01 am
Posts: 564
Location: USA
Well, if you stand beside a cow and look for eggs, you're going to be disappointed.

So instead of trying to find the exact scenario, change what you're looking for. Scenarios inside of campaigns can't always be balanced because of what took place in the last battle and the decisions made by the players.

So stop trying to see if their balanced or what they're labeled. Keep it simple.

Track the stand alone games to see if they are balanced, played a lot, etc. and only track the number of games and turns in a campaign.

Award a ribbon for the campaign and move on.

MG Al "Ambushed" Amos, Commanding Officer
1st Div, I Corps, AoP, USA


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 8:03 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: USA
I'm not stupid enough to stand beside a cow and look for eggs, but I'm having a hard time getting milk out of this chicken.

Lt Gen Ned Simms
1/VIII/AoS/USA
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:15 am
Posts: 296
Location: Australia
I think Al is right, in that the question ought to be is the campaign balanced.

If you look at something like Vicksburg if the Union player goes right at Chickasaw Bluffs (in a round 2 sort of thing), the campaign will get over in one scenario. If the Union player takes the historical approach during the first couple of scenarios if the Confederate wins (and it seems like a tall order -based upon the scenarios), then campaign over CSA wins ... after it goes further then the CSA player has no chance at winning the campaign (the best result would be a draw), and in some cases that isn't even likely to happen because of carry over losses.

In my mind, as far as clubs are concerned a set of scenarios within a campaign should be treated differently than just the scenarios. I understand the ribbon concept; I think the Musket and Cannon Club gives like an additional percentage of points in each battle within a campaign and then some bonus points for finishing a campaign (but others might be better to address that).

But, I think there are different standards for balance. The entire HPS and clubs relationship is a pretty touchy subject with me; I don't represent HPS - but have read opinions where "HPS should do more" then see the club people that say that sit back and expect HPS to do everything to promote their clubs for them. The clubs themselves should take some responsibility for that.

Col Stephen Trauth
AOT
XV Corps/3rd Division [1st Cavalry] 2nd Cavalry Brigade


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:01 am
Posts: 564
Location: USA
Ned, put a gun to the chicken's head. It worked for me. I didn't know chickens knew where Wal Mart was, and the whole driving experience was a trip! Maybe the gun to its head made it nervous! [:p]

MG Al "Ambushed" Amos, Commanding Officer
1st Div, I Corps, AoP, USA


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:44 pm
Posts: 45
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Col. Trauth: There are specific Battle Medals and ribbon for winning HPS campaigns.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I was initially going to say that they location of the battle is usually an easy way to determine the battle medal, but I see now that isn't the case. It works for the Chickamauga campaign, and for most of the Vicksburg campaign. However, if the Campaign reaches the large 14mile_Edwards_Bolton map, what medal do they get? There are three medals available to Union officers from that map (Big Black Bridge, Edward's Station, and Champion Hill). Which medal would be awarded for a victory there? Isn't the appropriate title determined by where the battle is fought, which isn't something included in the current way of reporting? These categories were obviously made for the stand-alone battles, but if the battle was fought primarily at Champion Hill should they be awarded the Edward's Station medal anyway?

Maj. Dylan McCartney
IV Brigade/ I Division
XIV Corps
Army of the Cumberland
Union Army


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm
Posts: 808
Location: USA
There are two things going on in a campaign as I see it: there is the individual battle and then there is the overall strategic battle which is the Campaign victory. So when a player registers each campaign game, he is eligible for a battle ribbon if that battle is over 35 turns and if he wins the campaign (of at least two battles)then he is also the winner of the Campaign medal & ribbon.

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: