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 Post subject: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:20 pm
Posts: 1154
Location: USA
In the JTS/HPS simulations you get a good number of points for destroying a gun tube in battle. You can overrun a battery of guns and get points for the capture of guns. You can also spike the guns of an captured battery and lose some points as a result. You can also take the time to destroy the guns of an overrun "enemy" battery and create points for your opponent, since the battery at that point belongs to you!

Do I have all of that right, or am I confused?

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General Jos. C. Meyer,
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)


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 Post subject: Re: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Location: Indiana, US
I agree with all until the end; "You can also take the time to destroy the guns of an overrun "enemy" battery and create points for your opponent, since the battery at that point belongs to you!".

It seems to me the battery in question is not really yours. I see it as; VP's for eliminated enemy guns at anytime. VP's for possession of enemy guns at the battle end point. For possession of an overrun unit there must be occupation. For VP's it might be easier to occupy at the end turn than to take the time and ammo to destroy an overrun "unoccupied" enemy gun at an earlier time.

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Brig. Gen. R. Sickbert
Second Division / Fifth Army Corps
Army of the Potomac


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 Post subject: Re: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:57 pm 
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I hear what you're saying, Randal. It seems as if enemy guns must always remain enemy guns for point purposes. But here's the thing. You can change facing and fire the guns of a captured battery at the enemy, as long as you have a friendly unit in the same hex. I don't think that you can actually re-crew the battery with your own people, but those guns can be used against the enemy if he is in range. (I've never checked to see where the ammo depletion in such a case occurs! :?: ) In any event, captured guns no longer belong to the enemy, they are your's for as long as you remain with them.

Once you leave the captured guns unattended, you will lose your capture points. So at that point you have two choices: you can spike the guns, or take the time to destroy them with your own batteries. If you destroy those guns without spiking them, who gets the points? If you first spike the guns and then destroy them, for whatever reason, who gets the points? And who gets what points if the enemy comes back and overruns his original guns that you've already spiked? :shock: :?:

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General Jos. C. Meyer,
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)


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 Post subject: Re: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:40 pm 
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I think if you spike, then destroy no one gets any points.


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 Post subject: Re: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Posts: 952
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Hi,

Some interesting questions as to ammo effects. I will run some tests when I get a chance and try to address some of these.

If you capture enemy guns, you get full points as long as you occupy them, even with just a leader or supply wagon. Unoccupied guns revert
to control of the original owner.

If you spike the guns, you get half points as long as you occupy them.

You get zero points for recapturing your own guns; you just deny the enemy the points.

If you destroy captured enemy guns, whether spiked or not, you get full points permanently.

Correction: Spiked guns which are destroyed give only half the points.

You capture a few rounds of ammunition when you capture the guns. I want to say 3 rounds/gun, but it may depend on parameter data.
This amount is added to your pool and subtracted from the opposing pool the instant you capture the guns. You never get those rounds
back, even if you recapture the guns.

The captured guns do use ammo from the capturing side's ammo pool when they fire.

You can fire the captured guns as well as the full strength of the occupying unit. On the other hand, if you recapture guns, you can't
fire them until you recrew them. This is problematic.

There are zero points for killing crews. This is also problematic.

One interesting point is abandoned guns can interfere with movement by units of the same side but not enemy units.
I think that was to keep folks from deliberately using them as roadblocks.

Anyway, just a few observations. Hope this helps.

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA


Last edited by mihalik on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OK, Let Me Get This Gun Point Thing Straight!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:24 pm
Posts: 433
Location: Terra
To add to this:
- Uncrewed artillery when stacked with friendly or enemy units fires with =1/2 Fire Value
- Captured(only possible with optional Artillery Capture rule) artillery fires with = 1/2 Fire Value
So you don't need manpower to fire them but you only get half the fire value, if you re-crew your own guns you fire with 100% fire value.

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Brigadier General Christian Hecht
Corps Commander V Corps, Army of the Potomac
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