American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

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Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

As a Billy Yank I think that the marsh not only belongs there, but it also needs to be stocked with gators, leaches, piranhas and anything else that'll slow Johnny Reb down!!!! :-}

I tend to think the marsh should be there. The creek on the maps is known as Plum Run. The three hexes of marsh north of the ones near Devil's Den should probably not be there.

I found this reference (https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/what-happened-at-the-devils-den-at-the-battle-of-gettysburg/) which says:
"Seeing the logic of Smith’s decision to cover the Devil’s Den flank, Ward sent off nine of the 10 companies of the 4th Maine under Colonel Elijah Walker to bolster Smith’s two detached guns. Picking their way down into the low marshy swale, these men formed a rough line in the midst of the boulders located on the northern rim of Devil’s Den that stretched across to the far side of Plum Run."

Also, and more definitive, is 'Elliot's map' of Gettysburg (https://www.loc.gov/item/99447500/). Specifically drafted in 1863 to show the locations of the veteran's graves it also shows some other features. If you enlarge the map you can see Plum Run to the east of Devil's Den and alongside the creek there you can see map icons indicating marsh. [There are a lot of graves west of the creek, so many that almost every step someone takes on the ground near there is the resting place of a veteran.]
About a quarter of a mile further south (about 4 hexes in the game) along the creek Elliot has shown a more extensive marsh running along the creek; there are no marsh hexes on the WDS map in that area (not one!).

[Edit note: Other than in the article quote (which was accurate), the words 'Marsh Creek' were replaced with 'Plum Run' to give the creek it's correct name (I must have been too preoccupied with marshes, LOL).]

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Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

Plum Run has historically been notorious for flooding. Whenever a big rain comes, even today, it can get bad. At the moment there's a huge issue because the park service allowed beavers to construct dams there and multiply so there is a big lake in that area now. But from a historical context, I think they are trying to replicate the fact that it will flood and at times (maybe even in early July '63) the area is a bit wet and marshy after rains.

The marshy Plum Run 3-hex plot to the north of the Wheatfield Road is still like that today (you can go here to see a google view of that area https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7979187,-77.2386998,284m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu)

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Maj Gen Michael E. F. Barycki
4th Bde, 5th Div, XV Corps, Army of the Tennessee
Commandant, ACWGC Training Academy
https://blakeacwgc.wixsite.com/trainingacademy
http://www.civilwartees.com/

That's very good information.
I'm thinking Elliot showed no marsh as it was not present when he was drafting his map (and it was not a map for topographical purposes). Some more information can be found here (http://www.gdg.org/Research/Other%20Documents/Newspaper%20Clippings/v6pt1l.html & https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/severe/this-day-in-weather-history-july-1-1863-the-battle-of-gettysburg). It seems that there had been rain prior to the battle and the thunderstorm on Day 3.
The second link says, in part:
"The third day of the Battle started with significant cloud cover but a lot of it cleared by the afternoon. However, the cloud that didn't clear happened to be the "massive thunder-cloud of summer." At around 6 p.m. EDT, a thunderstorm developed. "The thunder seemed tame, after the artillery firing of the afternoon," wrote Rev. Dr. Jacobs.
...
And on the third day of the Battle, many of the wounded were still lying in the field. Those who were laying in areas near the Plum Run Creek drowned."

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Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

Good info and research! Looks like the WDS map got it right. Much to my consternation as I attack the Devil's Den.

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Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

I checked the index in Pfanz's book on the second day for entries on Plum Run. Apparently the going was tougher than crossing a normal stream, and at least once ankle-deep mud was mentioned. So a marsh designation is probably warranted in places along Plum Run, but it was difficult to determine exactly where.

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA

Yeah, the Plum Run valley is a bit soggy. The NPS even has walking boards in the area around Devils Den because the ground is often quite saturated.

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Respectfully, your obedient servant,

Maj. Gen. L.P. Smith
Division Commander - II Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

Was a member of the FNPG for over 25 years and attended Musters twice a year at Gettysburg most years going on guided walks in various types of weather in the spring and fall.
I can recall several tours where we hit very soggy/muddy conditions, specifically one around the area of Scales advance on the first day and another in the area of Plum Run.
According to the weather charts for Gettysburg game there was a good bit of rain in the last week of June 1863.

I recall my grandmother's saying whenever someone told her they would see her tomorrow, "Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise."
Born on a farm in Ohio in 1900 the road to the farmhouse was a half mile or so and still dirt when we would visit my great aunt there in the 50's and it went through a dip in the ground with a creek that could vary in width and depth depending on the weather.

Another thing to consider is the army used the battlefield as a training ground for a number of years and one of the guides pointed out some of what they did changed the slope of the ground in some areas.

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Gen. Ken Miller



The McKeesport Union Guard

3/1/II
AotP

I found in my discussion with the late Doug Strickler that it fruitless to disagree with him on his decisions for the game. He zinged me good with the II Corps topic where I wondered why the corps arrives on the first day. His answer was spot on saying that they were there but when the hills were not in danger they were told to go into bivouac for the night. Good ole Doug knew his stuff. <THUMBSUP>

I still think that the Union supply train should arrive sooner but oh well ... as the Yank I have never had an ammo problem. ROFL

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Optional Rules I Use in WDS ACW Games:
(by column from left to right)
Column 1: All ON except for Man. Def. Fire; Column 2: All ON except for Alt Fixed Unit Rel.; Column 3: All ON except for Art.Capt. & Prop.Op.Fire