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 Post subject: simulation/game
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 12:37 pm
Posts: 356
Location: USA
Was going to just add this to my thread on HPS/GB but it deserves its own topic. HPS/GB seems to be a better simulation than the Talonsoft version. By this I simply mean more realistic in what commanders can see and the decesions that they can make. Talonsoft might be a better "game" in that its easier to play. These opinions are certainly open to debate and much is based on how one views War Games in general. I never quite considered it so much. Many feel that if its not real to the battle cries than its not a good game. In my dotage, I am starting to realize the value of just good ole fun. I am soon going to offer a BGG with NO fog of war at all!! Just good ole play like we used to do FTF.[:p]

Major General Tony Best
AOJ


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:54 pm
Posts: 332
Location: USA
Ahh the good old days.[:)] I remember when 3 buddies and I would get all our Squad leader boards together (along with all our pieces with our initials on the back) and spread them out on the floor of the basement and start a megabattle. Fog of war was those little question marks. He he. Yep, personally, I think fog of war is the single greatest invention known to mankind. Forget the wheel.[:D]

Major General Don Golen
Army of the Potomac, USA!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 4:59 pm
Posts: 133
Location: USA
I think I replied to another thread here about the first FOW experience I had. Way back in 1987 we set up two copies of the GBACW Pleasant Hill game on my ping pong table, each on either side of a divider. Since the game was at my house and it would go on for a few weeks (the group met once a week)I was the referee. I was the LOS guy.
Everyone got very consertative.
Great experience. Standard for today but unique back then.

Gen. Doug Burke
XX/AoC/USA


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 2:56 pm
Posts: 112
Location: USA, New Jersey, Ocean County
I also enjoy table top gaming, so FOW is not a "must have" for me.

I've discussed playing these games without FOW, but the very strong consensus has always been 'NO'. However, I submit there is only FOW the first time a commander plays/views a scenario. After that one commander may be in more "fog" then the other, and if you are playing for money, I'll bet one commander has much more information then you may suspect. I think with and without FOW has its place. Without FOW and that helicopter view of the battlefield should improve your tactics and understanding of fire power, command/control, etc.

Lt Gen Bob Breen
Commanding 4th Bde, 2nd Div, VI Corps, AoS
"Where we lead, the Army follows" - VI Corps


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:31 am 
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Bill
Nice post.

Fog has its own inherant problems. A truly great commander such as Stonewall could indeed "sneak" around a flank but thats why He`s known as a GREAT commander. Giving all commanders the tremendous ability to sneak around can lead to battles that are every bit as ahistorical as just leaving Fog off. Most commanders thought more in terms of just getting the guys fed, getting them moving and hopefully into line for attack or defense, Some may have TRIED to do a massive flank(Longstreet) guys would screw up(get lost) get discovered or a myriad of factors that caused such maneuvers to be dangerous, I am certainly not against Fog and will almost always use it but it certainly does not create the last word in Historical results.

Major General Tony Best
AOJ


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:06 pm
Posts: 232
Location: USA
Tony and Bill,

As you both no I am not a historical fanatic when it comes to these games. Even if it could be determined down to the minute where every single unit was exactly on the map, when you move your first unit you are no longer historical. You have changed the order things happened and most probably did not do exactly what the unit did at that given moment. So repeating exact historical occurences of the real battle is basically an impossibility and probably not your desire. We already know how that ended up! [:(] What we are all seeking is a fun game and fun opponents in a fun environment. The historians can have their style of battles and extremists that do anything the game allows can do theirs and the middle of the roaders can do their thing. There is no right or wrong about it. The challenge is finding the opponent that matches up to what you want. That is exactly what makes this club so great. They are all here and if you pair up with the right people you are in for some great times. Yes, we all play that guy we wonder why we ever got involved with him in the first place, but you just move on to the next battle and make a mental note that this player is not compatable with your style of play.

Another thing we all talk about is HPS and John Tiller's game engine. We all wish it had this or that, but it boils down to what John does is what we get. And so far that ain't been bad if you know what I mean. If you think it is, you really should go do something else because you are not going to have any fun here. However, the neat thing is, that John, Rich, HPS and the designers do listen to constructive suggestions and changes do happen. How many game companies allow you into the inner workings of the program like HPS has? I don't know of any myself though there probably are some.

I, personally feel this club, matched with HPS and Talon Soft games is a great thing and the club is recovering stringly from last summer and moving forward to an even stronger club.

Gee how did I evolve into all of that![:p]

Bill!! Midway!! My favorite naval game of all time! I have three board game versions of it. I had the original Apple IIe program that was by far the best, but misplaced it a long time ago. Would love to have it back. I built some amzing fleets to do battle with it!

OK, I'll stop.[:D]

Lt. Gen. Don Adams
5th Texas "Lone Star" Cavalry Brigade
I/III ANV
http://www.rootsandsaddles.com/index.htm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 12:37 pm
Posts: 356
Location: USA
Don hit the nail right on the head!! The club is here and it does make opponents available. Yes we have to locate the RIGHT foe but with so many guys available its almost impossible not to. Don and I are very good matches in what we want from the games but I am sure that there are a lot of guys who would find us both way too loosey goosey( I hope that term is endearing to Don[8D]). Yet some guys would find us playing too tight. Remember when ya was just stuck with the smelly gamer who rolled the die funny (and suspect) but that was all ya got? Well now. Don aint gotta smell me and he dont know that I roll the dice funny!![;)]

Major General Tony Best
AOJ


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