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 Post subject: Discusion of DC, CC, AC, TC duties
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:58 am 
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Fellow Members,

I would like to get input from those that have been and are in the various commander positions. What you do, what you like, what you don't like, what you would like to do/have as part of the duties and responsibilities. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the current setup? What you would like to see from the person above you. How do you perceive the Chain of command functioning?

For those who have are not commanders or aspire to be commanders what do you like/dislike and what you like to see within the structure.

My goal is to strengthen the Club structure, provide clearer duties and responsibilities and establish better communications protocols between the command levels.

Your input would be valuable in determining the actual duties being or not being performed versus the perceptions.

Thank you in advance for your responses.


Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
CSA Reserve Corps
President, ACWGC


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:54 pm 
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OK, brigade commanders , at least in my army, aren't mustering in consistently. As this is the only duty of Brigade commanders I have to admit, I'm a bit baffled by it. I think divisional commanders should assist in getting their brigade commanders to muster and they should send out periodic emails reinforcement corpswide and armywide activities such as tavern activity, tournament particiaption and MUSTERING. This is hit or miss. Most divisional commanders don't really see their jobs changing from brigade commanders, except that now they command a division. That's the lower levels as I see them.

Major General Don Golen
Army of the Potomac, USA!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 pm 
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1. It’s all about span of control. If the span of control does not exceed five then no one in the club should be pressed excessively hard, with the exception of the ACs and CoAs who could use some staff officers to soften their load. At any level above BC, if someone doesn’t do their ‘job’, then someone else has to suffer for it.

2. Brigade Commander (BC): Should be required to either play games or add something to the club, and muster.
a: The play games part is not necessarily difficult to define but it is difficult to manage. A BC shouldn’t go a full month without any games registered as being played. There should be at least a turn per month (or quarter, it just needs to be defined) that is played. This club is designed to accommodate those who devote hours per day to it, as well as those who want to sit down once in a while to enjoy a game turn. What is difficult to determine is whether or not a BC is actually playing any turns on the game that they have registered. If it was a 10 turn game started 12 months ago, then they may not be. If their opponent is no longer registered as being in the club, then they may not be. If they can’t tell the DC when was the last turn played and the status of the battle, then they may not be.
b: The add something to the club part is vital but judgmental. Who wants to kick someone out of the club who is designing the blind scenarios for your tournament but hasn’t taken the time to play a game in the last year? Not me. That commander is contributing more to the club than most of us. Do you want to kick the man out who is maintaining your web pages? Not me. But this has to be adequately defined. Otherwise, commanders will be allowed to remain on the rolls in one army for holding a job title where they don’t do anything but yet will be kicked out if in another army.
c: Muster! Like or not, people have got to muster. If you don’t understand why then you haven’t done enough for the club yet, otherwise you would understand. For example, we could have whole armies with no one in them who is active; maintaining websites and rosters of 100 people is lot more trouble than maintaining them for 50 people; and one of the biggest headaches is trying to reach and account for people who won’t respond. On the other side of the fence, we often require too much of our musters. Regardless of what time of the month that you want to require a muster, it will be a bad time of the month for someone. If a commander has been heard from sometime during the month, whether by a post to the corps or army forum (it’s too hard to keep up with who has posted at the MDT), or has sent an e-mail to the DC during the month, or has filed a battle report, etc, then why do they have tell someone at a specific time of the month that they are present and active. Only a very small percentage of us like to muster (yes, I’m an odd ball who loves it as I can harass my DC and get away with it plus I like to talk about my battles). The rest are here to play and they had not counted on this mustering thing in the bargain. All that we really need to know is that they are alive, active, and that we have a good e-mail address for them.

3. Division Commander (DC): Fields questions from their BCs, offers assistance in either playing maneuvers or finding someone to assist the BC who needs additional instruction, is a conduit for information going up and down, and collects muster from his BCs during the month and passes a report of that to the CC at the appropriate time. For muster, their only requirement should be to send an e-mail to their BCs that haven’t mustered, advising them that it is time. The BCs are responsible adults and should know the consequences of not mustering, and thus shouldn’t be chased. Additionally, if we expect something from the DCs, then they should be paid OBD points. It’s not going to break the club’s budget, you know.

4. Corps Commander (CC): The club should decide if a corps web page and/or forum is a requirement. If it is, then the club should specify the minimum requirements for information to be maintained on a corps web page (e.g. OOB, rank, name, e-mail address). Fields questions from their DCs, appoints and relieves DCs in their corps, is a conduit for information going up and down, passes a report of muster with award recommendations and recommendations for reassignment to the field hospital to the AC at the appropriate time, recommends the award of discretionary points to the AC, and receives New and End Game reports from the AC and passes to the appropriate DC.

5. Army Commander (AC): Maintains an army web site and forum. The club should specify the minimum requirements for information to be maintained on an army web page (e.g. OOB, rank, name, e-mail address, OBD points, medals/awards/ribbons). Fields questions from their CCs, appoints and relieves CCs in their army, is a conduit for information going up and down, passes a report of muster with award recommendations to the TC, approves reassignments to the field hospital, submits recommendations for discretionary point awards to the TC, receives New and End Game reports from the club and passes to the appropriate CC, submits CSA/USA OOB or Muster changes to the TC, verifies accuracy of USA/CSA OOBs and Musters, and approves army level awards/medals/ribbons.

6. Theater Commander (TC): Fields questions from their ACs, appoints and relieves ACs in their theater, is a conduit for information going up and down, reviews muster reports and requires any actions not yet taken as a result, submits USA/CSA level award recommendations to the CoA, approves discretionary point awards, maintains the theater OOB and Muster roster in a specific format that is provided to the CoA at specific times for the CoA to rollup into a USA/ CSA OOB and Muster, and approves theater level awards/medals/ribbons.

7. Commander of the Armies (CoA): Fields questions from their TCs, appoints and relieves TCs over their armies, is a conduit for information going up and down between the TCs and the Cabinet, maintains the CoA OOB and Muster which is available to the club (good job for a staff officer), approves CoA level awards/medals/ribbons, and performs duties as a member of the ACWGC Cabinet.

8. Maintenance of club wide rosters, etc, such as what is done presently with the Master List of Games should be done by either a member of the Cabinet or a staff officer reporting to a member of the Cabinet (or President).

9. This isn't perfect, but it should provide a good basis for debate.

Col Ned Simms
3/2/VI/AoS
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:07 pm 
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My Two cents:

<b>DC:</b> Maintain contact with their brigade commanders. Help them with issues like mustering (where to, how often, etc.), filing game reports or even finding an opponent. As time permits they should play at least (1) maneuver game with each brigade commander in their Division. This will establish a relationship between the two and help with the above mentioned things all at once.

<b>CC:</b> Maintain regular contact with their DC's, assisting with issues that arise (game disputes, answering questions the DC's can't answer for what ever reason, following up on AWOL officers) and looking after the general well being of the Corps. Ideally at least (1) challenge a year should be sought out between commands to increase the cohesiveness of the Corps as a unit. Too many contests should be avoided however so that people do not feel overly pressured. Submit reports to the AC on a predetermined basis (monthly or quarterly).

<b>CC & ADC</b> - I feel that every CC should have an ADC. Between these two officers they should maintain a Corps web page, ensure their officers are getting prompted on schedule and in a timely manner and also getting the awards they deserve. I usually like to split the duties like this, the one that can do the web work does that, the other watches the records and ensures the proper entires are made. That way the guy doing the web work simply gets fed the information and doesn't get swamped with having to track down all the details.

<b>AC:</b> Maintain VERY regular contact with the CC's. No less than once a week, IMHO. Ensure the CC's have the resources they need at their disposal, help to get them if they don't. Assign recruits to the various Corps. Help resolve issues that can't, for what ever reason, be resolved at the Corps level. Compile the information coming from the Corps into a report to submit to the TC on a predetermined basis (monthly or quarterly). Be on the look out for problems, such as a CC who is fading away, or a CC who is having several of his DC's fade away. Look to help keep stable, capable people in the various lower command slots.

<b>TC:</b> Maintain VERY regular contact with the AC's. No less than once a week, IMHO. Help them resolve issues as they arise. Keep the CoA informed of what is happening with their Armies in their Theater. Facilitate promotions & awards that require Cabinet approval, ensuring they don't get lost in the shuffle.

-----------------------

When I say communications I mean a simple e-mail. Touching base, making sure the other guy is out there and ok doesn't take too much. Without communications the entire structure breaks down.

"Official" reports should be kept to a minimum where possible. While I like statistics as much as the next guy, it can be extremely time consuming to do it properly. A simple list of active & AWOL officers should suffice as a report from a CC to a AC. The AC could consolidate that data from the various Corps and add in the number of recruits assigned to each and that would be his report to the TC. The TC would just combine his reports and forward on to the AoC.

My above comments derive from my personal experience as a CC on two separate tours. In the first we were tracking games started, completed, in progress, various victory levels, etc. TON's of information at the Corps level, with the DC's providing next to no information. In my second stint I greatly reduced the amount of data I tracked and it was a much easier task on me.

Anyway...there's a few things to chew on.[:D]

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:52 am 
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Thanks for the feedback Gentlemen. Would anyone else like to contribute? The more feedback the better. Any thoughts at all would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
CSA Reserve Corps
President, ACWGC


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:54 am 
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Pierre,

I like the suggestions already offered. Colonel Simms' suggestions continue as the standard for the CSA Western Theatre, from back when he was in command there. They are documented at http://www.cdon.freeserve.co.uk/western ... orders.htm

The only thing I would add is OBD points for mustering. Everyone gets OBD points for playing the games, all other duties are 'extra'. Any extra duties should be rewarded in some way. Mustering is the basic duty of each club member. I suggest making a standard 1 OBD point 'salary' for any member who musters. If he doesn't muster in a given month, he doesn't get paid.

Think of a new recruit who wants to only play one game at a time and decides to take on a three-day battle of Gettysburg as his first club game. If the game goes to the end, it could be years before he made it to Captain, even though he was actively participating in every sense. This basic incentive might help keep him motivated about the club.

This muster pay would not have much affect on senior officers, or on those already receiving an OBD salary for holding higher command positions. It might even be dropped entirely for those holding higher command.


Your humble servant,
LGen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

David W. Mallory
ACW - Lieutenant General, First ('Grey Line') Corps, AotM
CCC - Corporal, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Deaprtment, Colonial American Army


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:12 am 
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Thoughtful comments. I'll focus on the structure from CC down, both because that's what I've experienced, but also where I think we have the greatest weaknesses.

I agree strongly that administrative functions should be delegated down to the DCs as much as possible. There's a temptation as CC to just do it oneself, but I there's greater payoff in identifying and encouraging DCs. Ned is spot on about span of control - if you've got 4 or 5 people who are your primary relationships in the command structure, you can develop a much better working relationship than if you try to relate to 12 or 15. Ideally, the DC is sufficiently knowledgeable and helpful to engage their brigadiers in Club activity, answer questions, and troubleshoot problems. The CC ought to support this, rather than preempting it by assuming the role himself.

You get good DCs by training brigadiers. It's a bit of a chicken and egg, but if the current DCs are allowed and encouraged to become the primary Club relationship with their commands, you're simultaneously modeling the DC role for the brigadiers and identifying those with the desire to step up to it.

Ned raises the question of Corps web pages, which Rich supports. I'm not sure they're useful enough to be a requirement - it depends on what the Army is doing. VIII Corps used to have a page, which was largely historical information. Club information is concentrated on the AoS page, which includes subpages for each Corps. The AC has an ADC (who happens to be old Blood 'n Guts hisself) and assistance from another senior officer in the Army-level administrative function. On taking over the VIII I considered whether to reestablish the Corps page to provide Club-related information, but decided this would be duplicative of what's already working well on the Army page. Without a page to maintain (we have a reasonably active forum, but it doesn't take much maintenance), I see no need for an ADC.



Lt. Gen. Matt Perrenod
<i>The Blue Ghost</i>
VIII Corps, Army of the Shenandoah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:47 pm 
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Question?

Would it be practical to push down promotions, up to Col., down to TC, AC, DC, CC, DC, which one? Or should it remain with the CoA?



Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
CSA Reserve Corps
President, ACWGC


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Please forgive me, but I thought the CC automatically approved promotions up to the Col. levle, then had to send it up after that. Or am I off in left field? [:p]

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:14 pm 
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General Hamilton,

There are differences within the CSA and USA. I am just trying to figure them all out. When you were a CC did you approve the promotions and then advise your CoA?

Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
CSA Reserve Corps
President, ACWGC


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:36 pm 
Since I have been CC I believe the AC has been the one to approve promotions up to Colonel. I could see where CC's could do it when we had an automated system, since they were the ones who kept the pages updated but now that the AC's update the official OBD page for the army they know the points without the CC's telling them so it seems to work out.

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Col. Chris Cross
II "Jackson's" Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
CSA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:41 pm 
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The Automated System (Auto Sys) always did the promotions to Col and below. The USA and CSA sides each did the posting of points to the Auto Sys differently. I can't speak to how the USA side did it but at the beginning of each calendar month all of the points obtained from End Game Reports were added to the Auto Sys by Gen Love. At the same time, points obtained for holding command positions (CC and above) were added to the Auto Sys by the program looking at the OOB on the Auto Sys. On the CSA side, the Theater Commanders (TC) made the OOB changes to the Auto Sys as well as name and e-mail changes and submitted all discretionary/award points. It appears that the TC on the USA side didn't do that but that is an impression and not a knowledge. What was added by the TC became instanteous changes to the Auto Sys regardless of what time of the month that it was done. At any point during the month that enough points were added to qualify an individual for the next promotion then an announcement came from the Auto Sys (supposedly it was an automated e-mail and all of this wasn't done manually by Rob) giving the person their promotion.

There was always a problem in the club with the Auto Sys being the maintainer of the official club points but with only the 'brass' being familiar with that arrangement. Those who didn't deal with the Auto Sys often thought that the point totals maintained at the Army web sites were the official ones. It's always good to have a means of double checking the official point totals but to have the unofficial version posted for all to get confused by them was not good. The unofficial version should be kept out of the public eye but used by TCs and ACs to assist in resolving discrepancies.

I am assuming that there will not be another Auto Sys available to the club anytime soon and thus restructuring without it is a must. The present system is certainly not sufficient and is obviously placing too much burden upon too few shoulders. Personally, I would much rather see a centralized system where the rules are applied to everyone equally (whether it be equally wrong or equally right). If it had to be decentralized then I don't think that it should be done any lower than at the AC level. A requirement should be established which includes software and format to be used so that the results could all be forwarded higher and rolled up without many problems. ACs could appoint staff officers to perform the function if needed. With ACs doing it, that would be 10 different minds trying to apply the rules (good luck) and if it went to CCs then that would be about 28 different minds (forget it). You would wind up with some commanders saying that a point total was 'close enough' while others would go three or four months without touching it.


Col Ned Simms
3/2/VI/AoS
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:27 pm 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pierre D</i>
<br />Question?

Would it be practical to push down promotions, up to Col., down to TC, AC, DC, CC, DC, which one? Or should it remain with the CoA?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Personally, I would much rather see a centralized system where the rules are applied to everyone equally (whether it be equally wrong or equally right).
Col Ned Simms
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree with Ned that it should not be done below the AC level, but would be best done, universally, by one person or group.

Right now, Don Adams has a system that is functioning automatically, to a large extent. It is doing, as far as I can see, the same thing as the Love system was doing. I would guess the COA's are getting the point information from the "system". I do NOT know how things like discretionary points are being input into the system.

It is necesary to maintain, IMO, a couple of things. One is a complete backup, to include the ability to get the "system" back up running if something catastrophic happens to the original. (Like a complete HD/computer meltdown.) Two, some type of corrobration of the point totals.

The second point, could be the TC, COA or the AC's or, in the case of the TC's or COA's, a delegated person. This would, by definition, be a manual system, with input from the same raw data that goes into the auto system.

The first point should be someone within each army, perhaps, to receive the entire auto system on at least a monthly basis, so that there is a protection from catastrophic failure of the original. Then, at the most, only 4 weeks of data would have to be manually done to bring the auto system back online.

It seems to me that the point system, regardless of the method, auto or manual, is an integral and vital part of the club, no matter how much we hear that "I only play for the fun of it".

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
LtGen, CO XXIII Corps, AoO
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President, Colonial Campaigns Club
</b></font id="gold">


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:26 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pierre D</i>
<br />General Hamilton,

There are differences within the CSA and USA. I am just trying to figure them all out. When you were a CC did you approve the promotions and then advise your CoA?

Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
CSA Reserve Corps
President, ACWGC
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes Sir, that's how we handled it!

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:29 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Personally, I would much rather see a centralized system where the rules are applied to everyone equally (whether it be equally wrong or equally right).
Col Ned Simms
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hehehe, he has a point...

The only thing that comes to mind here is a "single point of failure", with one person doing the work. Either technical, personal (burn out, etc.).

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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