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 Post subject: What is Justification of the Isolation Rule
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 444
Location: USA
Gentlemen,

I would like to get some insite into the reason for the isolation rule. As I understand it, if a unit is surrounded so a path can not be made to a supply source without going through a enemy ZOC, then your melee strenght is reduced by 50%. The relative sizes of the forces has nothing to do with it, nor weither they do or do not have amminution. My question is WHY? Besides it being a cheep way to emilinate the opposing forces, a game tactic. At Shiloh in the hornets nest, the troops held out for some time instead of quickly being over run because of the good defensive nature of the ground. This bought presious time to reoraganize troops to the rear. Perhaps if the units were routed, but there is already a penetly for that. Isn't there? Any way any comments?

Col. Joe Mishurda

Joe Mishurda, The Cast Iron Division
2nd Div. XXV Corp, AoJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:29 am 
It seems to do two things, IMHO. If you are completely surrounded, it simulates the hopelessness of continuing the fight - eg you'd tend to stop fighting and surrender faster.

If you're not surrounded, it forces you to try to get back to your fellas, or be a lot less effective as a fighting force.

Unless you're Chesty Puller...

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC (one of three similar 'qoutes' credited to Chesty)

Lt Gen Bill Braddock, 1/2/III ANV


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:02 am 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 5:41 am
Posts: 873
Location: Somewhere between D.C. and the battlefield
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by wjbraddock</i>
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC (one of three similar 'qoutes' credited to Chesty)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sounds like Maréchal Foch at the Marne: "Mon centre cede, ma droite recule, situation excellente. J'attaque!" (My center is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking!)

Come to think about it ... Foch must have been a Reb. [:D]

Gen. Walter, USA
AoS / War College


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1638
Location: USA
The designers (HPS's) comment was it was to simulate the tendancy of men to surrender rather than fight to the last man in hopeless situations. In BG games it is rather severe, automatic loss. For that matter just being surrounded by zones in BG games would result in loss of all troops if they lost the melee.

In HPS games with soft ZOC on it is more forgiving. But I believe they defend at one quarter strength. They suffer automatic loss only if routed and isolated. And, if all hexes aren't occupied by units (some just zones) they can retreat through them rather than be elliminated.

The main purpose I see in the rule is it forces the player to cover his flanks and rear and keep his lines well formed and supporting. It punishes those who allow gaps to form or send individual regiments off into wilds without support.

Col. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: USA
Colonel Mishurda,

I hear there's an excellent article at the War College on Isolation in the HPS games.[8D]

Also read the Designers Notes in any of your HPS games, they give an explanation for the basis of the penalties of isolation, along the lines of what Col Whitehead describes...

Lt. General Jeff Laub
I Corps, Fighting First
Army of the Potomac, USA
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/I_Corps/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:43 pm 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />

And if they are OUT of AMMO then they SHOULD surrender period.



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The Rebs at the Deep Cut would probably just throw <i>more</i> rocks!
[:o)]

Lt Gen Bill Braddock, 1/2/III ANV


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