American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

I am about to start the second battle in a "full" Shiloh campaign, and both times so far I really had problems to understand the campaign options offered to me.

First battle (Belmont): "Grant strikes" vs. "After a successful landing, Grant pushes toward the camp". Sounds all the same to me. The accompanying map is exactly the same in both cases. Is there any difference between the two decisions? The description doesn't give much clue.

Second battle (Mill Springs?):
- "Anticipating Confederate moves". The description talks about invading East Tennessee, but doesn't mention any "Confederate moves" that I could anticipate. The map just shows my own forces (Thomas) at Logan's Crossroads, and Crittenden and some question marks at Mill Springs. No movements whatsoever.
- "Battle of Mill Springs". The description reads "Confederate forces ... have emerged from the woods and begun the attack on Logan's Crossroads." This really has me puzzled. (a) How can "Confederate forces have emerged ..." be a FEDERAL option. Note the past tense, too. How can I choose that the enemy "has" emerged. (b) Why should I want to choose that the enemy emerges. Finally, the map and description say this happens at Logan's Crossroads, but the option itself says it's Mill Springs (looking at the map, these two places seem rather distant from each other). So where is it? And what happened to get us there?

In all fairness, I find this rather less than enlightening, and cannot see how I could make a decision in good conscience. I think I shall toss a coin.

I believe campaign decisions should present clear alternatives and consequences: Do this, or do that. If you do this, you get the chance that this or that happens, but you run the risk of quite another thing happening. If you do the other thing ... and so on.

BTW just for the sake of it I went through the motions of starting these two battles from the Reb side. Quite the same there. For Belmont, the two options sound all the same, just in other words (the map is different). For Mill Springs, the one option talks about an operational situation (the Rebs advance on Logan's Crossroads) and has a map that illustrates this; the other option presents a tactical situation (the Rebs *have* advanced on Logan's CR and are about to begin the attack). Again, I cannot see any difference between the two options.

Guess it comes down to the rather disenchanting process of opening all four resulting battles as regular scenarios and see what they're all about.

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
AoS

OK I did the disenchanting thing and analyzed the situation with the campaign editor and scenario files. Here is the best explanation that I can come up with. The whole difference is in the *scope* of the battle. If both players opt for the tactical description ("the Rebels have emerged from the woods" etc.), the battle battle takes place on the Mill Springs map and is just that. The moment even one of the opponents chooses the operational description (the Federals invade Tennessee, and/or the Rebs advance on Logan's CR, respectively), the battle occurs on the "Greater Mill Springs Map", a much larger map. But then why not say so?

Besides, what an odd decision to face a Civil War general with, "do you just want the battle proper, or do you also want all the marching?" [;)]

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
AoS

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
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Besides, what an odd decision to face a Civil War general with, "do you just want the battle proper, or do you also want all the marching?" [;)]

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
AoS


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AMEN!!!! I am in this Campaign and that is exactly what happend to me. So now its Turn 14 of 26 and I AM STILL MARCHING TOWARDS LOGANS CR!!!!!!! My Crafty Yank opponent, set an ambush on both sides of the road so that slows my advance even more! I'll be lucky to get to LCR before the scenario runs out!

I had the same confusion when making my campaign choices. After a Major Victory at Belmont, I decided to go on the attack and now I march.

MAJ D.H. Smith
3/1/III Corps,AotM,CSA

http://users.adelphia.net/~sapper99/index.htm

Some of the 'Campaign Decisions' sure are confusing for me too. I began fooling around with the AI in the Shiloh Campaign and ended up at the second "battle" game which is Logan's Cross Roads. In that battle I easily defeated the AI and ended up winning the War!! Isn't that a bit much? I mean Logan's Crossroads may have been important but.....

Sorry for the confusion gents,

Ending the campaign at Mill Springs with a Union Major Defeat is not implying that the War is a Southern victory, just simply that the Union campaign to drive through Tennessee has ended with failure and that A.S. Johnston can now concentrate his forces to take the war north. Perhaps my wording sounds a little like what one would have read in the Richmond Gazette.

Using the full map at Mill Springs give players the option to create their own battle, rather than be limited to the prearranged historical battle. Sorry for the marching distance, but you can now take a wide range of options to meet your objectives.

Some of the scenario differences are subtle, but meant to give the player more options.

Rich W.

P.S. I still haven't finalized my patch, so perhaps ending the "Full" campaign with a lucky Confederate Defeat is a bit extreme. I may change that. Thank you for you comments.



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gcollins</i>
<br />Some of the 'Campaign Decisions' sure are confusing for me too. I began fooling around with the AI in the Shiloh Campaign and ended up at the second "battle" game which is Logan's Cross Roads. In that battle I easily defeated the AI and ended up winning the War!! Isn't that a bit much? I mean Logan's Crossroads may have been important but.....



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My opponent and I are almost through the full campaign. At first I was a little frustrated with the campaign options. I wanted larger maps and a chance to maneuver but after my second battle, I decided to just go with what the designer designed and enjoy it for what it was.
That done, I'm finding it was one of the best PBEM campaigns I've played. PLAY IT BLIND!!!

*Possible Spoilers: I'm going to give as little details as possible as to not spoil things too much.
My opponent and I played the campaign blind with all options on except manual def fire, optional fire and melee, and higher fatigue recovery. We had no house rules but our campaign has had few melees, none by column, only one on an isolated unit that was routed. Our lines have been dressed as best as possible, troops have been rotated for fatigue, and none of our battles up until Shiloh had any reckless waste of troops. My main goal was to get to Shiloh or an equivalent battle, so I fought initial battles cautiously not concerned with the game victory conditions but with the intent of winning the battle of attrition yet not leaving too few troops to have a good tussle at Shiloh. Our campaign developed from smaller battles to large with each battle being a little larger than the former. Though I had wanted larger maps and more freedom of maneuver at first, in hindsight I find Rich's method of campaign development was well chosen and a delight to play. The reason being that he allows the campaign to develop as a story while at the same time proposing scenarios that progressively offer more difficult problems to solve using skills refined from previous scenarios in the campaign
Our short early battles acted as an introduction to the troops and terrain; one could refine tactics for later use in the larger battles. For example, Belmont serves as an introduction to the heavy woods fighting that we see in Shiloh. The players also get to experiment with the offense of Union gunboats and Rebs get to experiment with a defense against them. By the time my 4th battle with gunboats arrived, I was quite happy for the earlier battles that let me gain some experience with them. Next battle was Mill Springs and our choice of options led to a small short battle where a larger division of rebs come through the woods to attack a smaller division of yanks in open field. Again the experience gained here was handy for Shiloh.
The series of smaller battles we fought gave us a chance to set our teeth in the campaign. Nobody got beat up much and the turns were quick to play with no battle lasting more than 20 turns. I think this helped create interest and commitment to the game. Also because the early battle play through quickly, with a good opponent you are through 3-4 battles in a couple of weeks.
When the time for a larger battle came, my anticipation had been whetted and it was a lot more welcome. But it was a surprise! Our results and options led to "What If," Union assault at Nashville and that turned out to be one of the most fun scenarios I've played blind. We terminated this battle in a bid for a Union minor victory after 40 or so turns since there was a possibility the rebs would take heavy losses and spoil Shiloh.
Shiloh was next and we are on turn 20. The battle has played out with our forces now opposite each other along the Purdy road and then runs in a line east that extends through the peach orchard and then across the woods to the Tennessee. The Union lines are finally dressed and Reb casualties outnumber Yanks almost 2:1. They have been heavy.
(I think for Shiloh, rout limiting should probably be off to get a more historical result.)
I don't know how things will end but it has been oine of the most fun campaigns I've played. Big plusses for the size which allows quick PBEM turnover, and for the development which got me into this campaign more than others I've played.

One other note. Gunboats face emplaced guns and it's easy to steam around these and hammer them from the flank where they cannot return fire. Probalaby gamey and I decided against this strategy in later scenarios.

Gen Sam Moon (retired)

Sam,

After reading your post, I've decided I'll have to get this game sometime this year. Very well said. Sounds like two players applying some common sense producing a very enjoyable series of games.

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!

Thanks for the report and compliments Sam. I'm glad your enjoying Shiloh.

Rich



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sam Moon</i>
<br />My opponent and I are almost through the full campaign. At first I was a little frustrated with the campaign options. I wanted larger maps and a chance to maneuver but after my second battle, I decided to just go with what the designer designed and enjoy it for what it was.
That done, I'm finding it was one of the best PBEM campaigns I've played. PLAY IT BLIND!!!

*Possible Spoilers: I'm going to give as little details as possible as to not spoil things too much.
My opponent and I played the campaign blind with all options on except manual def fire, optional fire and melee, and higher fatigue recovery. We had no house rules but our campaign has had few melees, none by column, only one on an isolated unit that was routed. Our lines have been dressed as best as possible, troops have been rotated for fatigue, and none of our battles up until Shiloh had any reckless waste of troops. My main goal was to get to Shiloh or an equivalent battle, so I fought initial battles cautiously not concerned with the game victory conditions but with the intent of winning the battle of attrition yet not leaving too few troops to have a good tussle at Shiloh. Our campaign developed from smaller battles to large with each battle being a little larger than the former. Though I had wanted larger maps and more freedom of maneuver at first, in hindsight I find Rich's method of campaign development was well chosen and a delight to play. The reason being that he allows the campaign to develop as a story while at the same time proposing scenarios that progressively offer more difficult problems to solve using skills refined from previous scenarios in the campaign
Our short early battles acted as an introduction to the troops and terrain; one could refine tactics for later use in the larger battles. For example, Belmont serves as an introduction to the heavy woods fighting that we see in Shiloh. The players also get to experiment with the offense of Union gunboats and Rebs get to experiment with a defense against them. By the time my 4th battle with gunboats arrived, I was quite happy for the earlier battles that let me gain some experience with them. Next battle was Mill Springs and our choice of options led to a small short battle where a larger division of rebs come through the woods to attack a smaller division of yanks in open field. Again the experience gained here was handy for Shiloh.
The series of smaller battles we fought gave us a chance to set our teeth in the campaign. Nobody got beat up much and the turns were quick to play with no battle lasting more than 20 turns. I think this helped create interest and commitment to the game. Also because the early battle play through quickly, with a good opponent you are through 3-4 battles in a couple of weeks.
When the time for a larger battle came, my anticipation had been whetted and it was a lot more welcome. But it was a surprise! Our results and options led to "What If," Union assault at Nashville and that turned out to be one of the most fun scenarios I've played blind. We terminated this battle in a bid for a Union minor victory after 40 or so turns since there was a possibility the rebs would take heavy losses and spoil Shiloh.
Shiloh was next and we are on turn 20. The battle has played out with our forces now opposite each other along the Purdy road and then runs in a line east that extends through the peach orchard and then across the woods to the Tennessee. The Union lines are finally dressed and Reb casualties outnumber Yanks almost 2:1. They have been heavy.
(I think for Shiloh, rout limiting should probably be off to get a more historical result.)
I don't know how things will end but it has been oine of the most fun campaigns I've played. Big plusses for the size which allows quick PBEM turnover, and for the development which got me into this campaign more than others I've played.

One other note. Gunboats face emplaced guns and it's easy to steam around these and hammer them from the flank where they cannot return fire. Probalaby gamey and I decided against this strategy in later scenarios.

Gen Sam Moon (retired)
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