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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2025 4:59 pm 
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EPISODE 1.12 -
January 21, 2005

The Abraham Lincoln Book Shop
Guest: Daniel Weinberg

Visit with Daniel R. Weinberg, owner of Chicago's legendary Abraham Lincoln Book Shop.


Blake's Review:
This episode is an easy one to skip over. While not a bad interview, it lacks any real Civil War thought-provoking discussions and instead focuses on collecting Civil War books, autographs, and other historical keepsakes. While I enjoy collecting things, and did enjoy parts of their chat, I got bored towards the end and finally just skipped the last 15 minutes or so. I did visit the Lincoln Bookshop's website and they are still in business in 2025. They are still selling first editions, autographed books, and other Civil War collectibles.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2025 5:00 pm 
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EPISODE 1.13 -
January 28, 2005

Civil War on a Card Table
Guest: David A. Powell

Dave Powell explains how he designs simulation games based on Civil War battles.


Blake's Review:
David A. Powell! Yes, the same David Powell who would eventually write the recently completed Battle of Chickamauga trilogy! But in this episode from 2005 he is simply a Civil War gaming enthusiast who creates tabletop games but has a day job running a courier company in Chicago. This episode deals with a ton of issues which are interesting to those of us in Civil War Gaming community. Powell's mainly concerned with tabletop gaming but they do discuss computer gaming and Powell's opinion on it.

The conversation begins with a discussion on tabletop games and why Powell enjoys them and creates them.

Then Gerry says something we have heard a thousand times in this forum and from others in gaming, "I would find myself dissatisfied with something in the game that I thought was not accurately portrayed." Powell agrees with that sentiment from older games and says that "Often the history was poor or questionable in some of the games because they were designed by amateurs. They weren't designed by historians. They were designed by kids in their twenties going, hey, let's do something here." Powell, who ironically is an amateur historian, then comments that his own desire to create better and more accurate games is what drives him.

Who is the main audience for Civil War gaming? Not surprisingly it is white middle-aged men. The same holds true in 2025 as it did in 2005. They then chat about the history of Civil War gaming, grids, mapmaking, counters, and other gaming aspects.

Powell states another fact we all bemoan endlessly about gaming, "one of the big problems with wargames and surely one of the problems with history in general is it becomes almost too easy to second guess the men who were there because we as a reader or we as a game player experience all the information. We have perfect intelligence, or as perfect as history can make it. The men in those command slots, of course, didn't have any of that luxury." Powell then talks about how various games attempt to establish a fog of war but that because we are playing history it is, on some level, impossible.

Gerry later asks if a perfect test for a game is whether or not if you make all the same moves of the historical generals whether the end result will be the exact same as the battle. Powell agrees that it is a fair test and that a well-designed game, if following the historical script, should end with the same result. "You should be able to reproduce the historical result no matter what the focus of the game is."

Gerry then gets into computer wargaming.

"Is computer wargaming the wave of the future?"

"Yes and No," Powell replies. "Computers can do some of this [talking about variations and artificial intelligence] and there are computer game designers doing this, but one interesting thing I have seen about some of the computer games so far, is that their engines, the systems, are reminiscent of games from an earlier generation. They are more like games from the 1970s translated to the computer. The only flaw in that, and where computers need to catch up, I think, is that the paper board games have moved beyond those 1970s ideas and the computer games need to implement some of those command and control and other aspects of gaming. They are starting to catch up in that way. Another problem computer game makers have, and which also holds true for boardgamers, is that they can't sell enough of them to merit mass market distribution. You can't just go to Best Buy and pick one off the shelf."

Powell also brings up the problem that computers can "cheat" by doing things which the human player can't. This isn't an issue with WDS games but for some other games the A/I will be able to move multiple units simultaneously and be able to move much faster than humans which are limited in gaming speed by how fast we can move the mouse and click. Gerry complains that a computer, essentially, can't be trusted. He also argues that an advantage of tabletop games is that you can endlessly modify the setups to suit your own interpretation of events. Again, this is a fair argument in 2005 but, at least with WDS, the scenario editor allows great freedom to alter scenarios to your liking based on how you think the history should be presented. Powell agrees with Gerry and references the "black box" of computer gaming which prevents gamers from knowing what the calculations are which the computer uses to determine outcomes.

This chat is obviously 20 years old and a lot has changed with technology since then. A/I is now smarter than humans (God Help Us) and eventually this will make its way into Civil War gaming online in some way or another. But in 2005 Powell says, "The stumbling block for computer games, unless they are played online against a human opponent, is that your opponent is a computer and its an artificial intelligence and its not going to be as creative or as clever or effective as you are." Gerry agrees, "That is almost always the case." I wish in 2025 with WDS I could argue the A/I is now a worthy opponent but... well... that problem still exists (for now?).

They end the conversation with a talk about David Powell's growing obsession with Chickamauga and how his research of the battle was driven by his desire to create a more detailed tabletop game for the battle. He talks about leading tours at Chickamauga and how he would like to eventually write a book on the battle. Little did he know it would turn into a massive undertaking and a brilliant trilogy.

An excellent episode to listen to for various reasons if you love Civil War gaming! It is dated but... so are the games we play, lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2025 1:04 pm 
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I think the argument that historical gaming will never be able to recreate actual battles perfectly because the fog of war will never be repeatable is fully supportable. Any time you play any game based on history both sides always know more than they should which will always effect the choices they make.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2025 8:26 pm 
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EPISODE 1.14 -
February 4, 2005

While God Is Marching On
Guest: Steven Woodworth

Dr. Steven Woodworth, author of many Civil War titles, including Jefferson Davis and His Generals, brings to light a rarely mentioned facet of life in Civil War armies.


Blake's Review:
Steven Woodworth is an excellent writer and I was excited to hear this episode. Parts of the interview were very amusing and well done and I enjoyed the conversation. Unfortunately, as sometimes happens, they seemed to veer too much to random history topics and by the third segment got far off topic. I feel the main "point" of the interview, religion for the Civil War soldiers, was almost forgotten. Which is ironic as they spent a few minutes lamenting that people largely overlook that facet of the war.

The talk begins with a conversation of how Woodworth became interested in the Civil War. "Like so many other Civil War historians, I have to say that the works of Bruce Catton first piqued my interest in the Civil War." This continues the string of guests who point to Catton as the first person to really bring the Civil War alive for them.

After spending a few minutes visiting and chatting, they turn the subject to the Civil War in the West. Woodworth mentions he is working on "Nothing But Victory" which covers the history of the Army of the Tennessee. Woodworth states, "that was where the war was actually decided. It could perhaps have been decided in the East, but as it turned out, it wasn't. In the war in the East it takes Union forces there four years to cover about a hundred miles from Washington to Richmond. If they were making that little headway in the West, the war might still be going on now." Why is that, Gerry asks. Woodworth has a few reasons. First, the Union was able to better coordinate army and naval operation in the West where the rivers created highways into the South. Second, the leadership in the Western theater was simply better.

Continuing the western conversation, Gerry asks about Bragg and what his major 'problem' was.

Without missing a best, Woodworth responds, "Leonidas Polk." Woodworth states that even Lee doubted he could have gone West and received cordial cooperation from the generals that Bragg had to work with. Woodworth contends inferior western unit leaders in the AoT were more responsible for the losses in the West than Bragg was. "If Bragg had better subordinates, then he might not be the sort of watchword for poor leadership that his name has become."

They discuss Grant and his improving reputation among scholars of the war. Woodworth praises Grant's abilities and talks about his Vicksburg Campaign as being one of particular brilliance as his force is outnumbered in Mississippi, behind enemy lines, and yet still is victorious in the end.

Gerry then decides to throw a little gas on the fire and brings up an academic argument that Woodworth was currently having with Albert Castel over the abilities of William Sherman. Castel was arguing that Sherman was overrated and simply got credit for doing average things which should have been obvious to any general. Woodworth is quick to defend Sherman. "Castel's criticism of Sherman seems to focus on pointing out that Sherman was neither Grant nor Lee. Sherman had some weaknesses, but then so does every general. Sherman's weaknesses were that he was weak on offensive tactics, but again, that was pretty widespread. Most Civil War generals learned to overcome their weakness of their offensive tactics, I believe, by practicing superior offensive operational skill so that they could bring overwhelming force to bear on the battlefield. That was Grant's solution. That was Grant's solution. That wasn't Sherman's solution. His solution was more on the strategic level once he was given the opportunity to practice it." Woodworth continues to defend Sherman by saying that Castel's argument says that the things Sherman did should have been obvious to any general in that situation. Woodworth says that if such tactical decisions were obvious then anyone could be a general. He quotes Clausewitz who said that in war everything is simple, but the simplest thing is very hard. "Just to get an army from one place to another took a huge amount of talent."

At this point they take their first intermission for the interview. When Woodworth returns they discuss Civil War religion but also begin to skip around on topics ranging from teaching history, why history is hard to teach to the masses, and the difference between popular history and academic history. It is an interesting discussion between two intellectuals but contained nothing of critical importance I feel compelled to include here. Once more, I wish Gerry would stay on the Civil War topics more and dig in deeper to some of the key points with each guest.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2025 4:02 pm 
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EPISODE 1.15 -
February 25, 2005

Beyond the Civil War?
Guest: William C. Davis

Prolific Civil War author William C. 'Jack' Davis shares observations based on a lifetime of research, and talks about new directions for the future.


Blake's Review:
This is a friendly interview and one which you feel more like a "fly on the wall" than you usually do. Davis is a very well-known writer with many published books to his credit. His many awards and accolades speak for themselves and it is rare to find any serious Civil War student without a few books by Davis on their shelf.

The talk begins with the usual chat about where his interest in the Civil War came from. For Davis, it was his family connection to the war as he has relatives on both sides of the conflict. He got his first job in publishing by working for The Civil War Times Magazine back in 1969. He stayed with the magazine for 21 years. Gerry asks about why the Civil War continues to interest people from around the world and Davis responds that the story of the war is simply a great story. He also states that "We live in a culture full of myths of our own creation, and the Civil War has been the biggest generator of American myth." He goes on to say that you can't escape the Civil War in America, "Elvis Presley's first big hit, Love Me Tender, was really a Civil War song 'Aura Lee.'"

Why do so many readers identify more with the South than the North? "Two big things. One is the Lost Cause myth, which is a host of things... But a part of that mythology is this thing that appeals to anybody, not just Americans, of the heroic underdog, who somehow, against all the odds, seems to manage to sustain itself for an incredibly long period of sacrifice before it goes down. And then, of course, the fact that in the South, the Southerners are the only Americans who ever lost a war... and the only ones who've ever suffered a military occupation. And something like that leaves large emotional scars that a lot of people simply can't escape."

Why did the South create so many myths about the war? "I think the South needed mythology to psychologically overcome the trauma of being defeated and current generations have adopted that often in complete ignorance of the real facts of the Civil War or the Southern experience."

Where does Davis stand on the issue of the Confederate flag and the efforts of groups to ban it? "I think what you have in an instance like this is an irreconcilable conflict. In the flag controversy, it seems to me both sides are arguing from positions of ignorance and instead are arguing from positions based in a faith. People don't compromise on faith. Faith is something you believe because you believe it, not because of evidence. Both parties in the conflict are kind of ignoring facts and don't want to be confused by the facts because the flag issue involves faith and internally held beliefs that they're not going to turn loose of."

They then go on to discuss publishing and the large number of Civil War books being written in 2005 (not all great of course). They then discuss Davis's writing at present and which books he enjoyed writing the most (Three Roads to the Alamo is his response).

They then discuss who are the most overrated generals of the war and it is here that Davis gets animated when talking about Joseph Johnston. "I think Johnston was deplorable! Johnston never understood, like Beauregard, the role of an army commander in a civil democracy. That is he is subordinate to the civil authority and has a responsibility to cooperate with and to report to his civil commander. Johnston refused to communicate to his president." Why didn't he communicate his intentions to Jeff Davis? "I think it was because he never intended to do anything. Johnston was a man who lacked moral courage, he had tremendous physical courage, but morally he did not have the courage to use the responsibility he had." He goes on to call Johnston's memoirs a 400-page lie which were self-serving and used to deflect criticism against him by historians both in the 19th Century and still today. "Johnston, I think, is just a deplorable fellow who just did not have the character, equipment, to be an army commander." Davis then points out that the next most aggressive army commander to Lee was Braxton Bragg based on the number of offensives they launched. "He at least would make plans and he would start campaigns, they just fell apart because he couldn't manage them and he had these awful problems of personality and character himself. He spent more time fighting his own generals than he did the enemy. But Bragg at least had the guts to start. Beauregard, Johnston, Kirby Smith, none of the others have the courage to even launch a campaign."

Overrated Union general? "I'm sick and tired of the hero worship of George Thomas." Davis admits that Thomas was able but questions his genius or abilities generally. "Much has been made about how he wins the most complete victory of the war in Nashville and destroys a southern army. But, God, McClellan could have destroyed John Bell Hood's army at that point.... this is not a great achievement."

Overall this is a fine interview and I enjoyed it. They did use about 20 minutes to discuss history and writing in general which, while I personally find informative and interesting, I wish they'd have expanded the talk on the generals and the Civil War a bit more.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:37 pm 
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EPISODE 1.16 -
March 4, 2005

Civil War--The Next Generation
Guest: Catherine Clinton

Catherine Clinton, author of The Other Civil War, Scholastic Encyclopedia of the Civil War, Harriet Tubman and many other books for adults and children, discusses new audiences, and new possibilities, for Civil War history.


Blake's Review:
The first female guest on the show.

The talk begins with the prerequisite chat about how she became interested in the Civil War. For Clinton, it was the early exposure to historical dramas on TV and in movies which got her interested in history.

They then talk about Mary Todd Lincoln and her interest in spiritualism which, Clinton says, was much bigger in the 1850s and 1860s than we realize today. Spiritualists outnumbered abolitionists in antebellum America she says. "That women played such an important role that many of the prominent reformers that we've heard of were great believers in spiritualism." They talk about the rise of spiritualism and talk about how modern marvels, like the telegraph, convinced people that just because someone was gone and not next to you, you could still communicate with them (even from beyond the grave). People, they continue to discuss, have a universal need to deal with tragic losses and to search for ways to communicate with lost loved ones and to understand what it all means. "Mary Todd Lincoln, along with many others, lost loved ones, but her loss of her child Willie in the White House, and then of course her husband being murdered in front of her, were traumas that I don't think many of us can imagine." Mary Todd would consult spiritualists attempting to contact her departed loves ones for closure.

They then go on to talk about the loss of loved ones in 19th Century America and how families dealt with such losses. Obviously, it was an age with a high infant mortality rate which effected how death was dealt with on many levels. The loss of so many during the war also was discussed and how children dealt with these losses.

They then have a lengthy discussion of Clinton's writings and her views on various historical figures from the Civil War era - mainly women. Clinton discusses her work on Harriet Tubman and the need for more work in the field of Civil War women and African American studies. It is a very good discussion if you are interested in public history and the various ways history can be viewed by different people and ages. They also talk about oral history and written history and how both must be respected equally rather than valuing the written word over the other. "I very, very strongly endorse the use of oral history because, as a scholar of African American history and working in African American studies, you learn more and more the value of what is passed on as well as what is written down... Oral history can be weighed and judged just as valuable as the written record."

I enjoyed the conversation as an interesting interview with a Civil War scholar on some of the lesser considered and discussed aspect of the Civil War on the homefront. It was also just a good conversation about writing history and viewing it through different lenses.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2025 10:32 pm 
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EPISODE 1.17 -
March 11, 2005

Technological Change and Human Constants
Guest: Craig L. Symonds

Craig L. Symonds, history professor at the United States Naval Academy and author of the Battlefield Atlas of the Civil War, talks about a range of topics from Confederate generals to Union ironclads.


Blake's Review:
I was excited to hear this interview as Symonds wrote one of the better biographies I read growing up on Patrick Cleburne. Unfortunately, aside from a quick two-minute chat about Cleburne at the very end of the interview, they do not discuss him. Overall, it was an underwhelming interview by Gerry.

The conversation begins with some light chat about what they are both up to and about the upcoming 200th anniversary of Lincoln's birth.

They then turned to Joseph Johnston whom Symonds had written a biography about previously. Gerry asked Symonds to respond to the remarks by William C. Davis in an earlier episode where he declared Johnston to be "deplorable." Symonds stated he and Davis had previously debated the merits of Johnston. Symonds begins to discuss how Johnston is a difficult person to understand. Unfortunately, Gerry and Symonds get inexplicably sidetracked by a discussion of Johnston's prewar correspondence with McClellan and then just drift to other topics.

Symonds does state an interesting opinion of his that Sherman and Johnston were each "useful to the other in terms of defending the historical position that he desired. Sherman wanted it to appear that Johnston was a great opponent, because that would make his own exploits in Georgia so much more admirable. Johnston wanted to say that, well, Sherman was a great commander because that's why it was impossible for me to counterattack him or to find a chink in his armor." But he doesn't elaborate more on this which is kind of a shame.

The interview really does stray far and wide as they spend a long time discussion US Naval History from the Revolution to the Persian Gulf War. It was an interesting chat to listen to, and Symonds convinced me I need to add a book to my list to read later, but I don't listen to a Civil War podcast to hear about naval tactics at Midway.

Unfortunately, while interesting to listen to overall, it just didn't do much for me as a Civil War listener.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2025 4:24 pm 
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EPISODE 1.18 -
March 18, 2005

Generals, Gods, Angels
Guest: Jeff Shaara

From his father's The Killer Angels to his own best-selling novels, Jeff Shaara discusses the craft of historical fiction.


Blake's Review:
If you've ever wanted to know more about the Shaara family and the story of the book Killer Angels then you should listen to this podcast. Jeff gives some interesting details about his dad's life and how Killer Angels only became a massive bestseller after his father passed away. They also discuss the pitfalls and problems with historical fiction while also spending a lot of time on Gods and Generals. What did Jeff think of the movie based (very loosely and poorly he says) on his prequel to Killer Angers? Overall it was a failure. Why? Jeff doesn't want to necessarily blame anyone but he seems to strongly feel that Ron Maxwell (director of Killer Angels and Gods and Generals) butchered the screenplay while also becoming lost in the minutiae of Civil War history. He feels the film Gettysburg stuck very closely to the book Killer Angels but that too many liberties were taken with Gods and Generals which contributed to its poor reception and quality.

Not much to listen to here if you want Civil War non-fiction but if you enjoy a good talk about historical fiction then this will amuse you.

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EPISODE 1.19 -
March 25, 2005

Why Pickett is Still Charging On
Guest: Lesley J. Gordon

Lesley J. Gordon, author of General George E. Pickett in Life and Legend, crosses boundaries by combining contemporary academic methodology and theory with traditional military topics.


Blake's Review:
The second female author of season one (for those keeping score). Early on Gordon states that she fears being taken less seriously as a military historian because of her gender. I kind of thought this would keep Gerry from straying into the conversation of women in history but, alas, he probably spent more time discussing how women view and write history differently than he did about Pickett. I kind of wanted Gordon to remind him that she wrote a whole book about Pickett and that most Civil War listeners would find that more interesting than whether women are more inclined to view historical events through social history lenses than men are. At least with the first two female guests on the show, the episodes spend more time on gender issues in the field of history than they do on the Civil War specifically.

What got Gordon interested in the Civil War? She responds that it was the Killer Angels (which is interesting as Shaara was just a guest on the show talking about how the novel influenced so many people). Gerry asks how she views the book as a professional historian these days as opposed to when she first read it. Gordon responds that, "I do not find it as satisfying today as I did all those years ago, just because I do think it offers a rather simplistic view of the war and soldiers in general... it's a very romantic view of the war." This was my first inclination that Gordon might be a bit of an elitist in her views and it turns out I was not wrong. She later stated that she found amateur Civil War groups and historians a bit worrisome as they too often viewed the war too simplistically (a catchword for her) and tended to shy away from the deeper causes and ramifications of the war. Gerry kind of questioned this since, without the mass appeal of the Civil War era in general, many historians would be out of work as it is the most popular era of American history. But they agreed that historians are fortunate to have such a large audience when it comes to the Civil War but that historians also needed to make sure to avoid the Lost Cause mythology which permeated the genre. Fair enough. Her views on reenactors were also negative and Gerry, again, brought up the views of previous guests who saw the groups as just a way for amateur (or even professional) historians to get closer to the war and experience it on a more personal level.

But what about Pickett? That's what I wanted to know more about. They eventually got to talking about him. Why has Pickett's Charge become the central point of the war that people fixate on so much? Here Gordon punts the ball a bit by promoting the work of Carol Reardon who wrote, "Pickett's Charge in History and Memory" (which I have added to my list of books I'd like) and talks about how the event itself in the war was not seen as anything seminal. It was only in the post-war period that the Charge began to be transformed into the High Tide we think of it as now. "It was a deliberate sort of campaign put together by especially a group of Virginians, who were also very active in the lost cause movement, trying to recast the whole story of the Confederacy and make it into this heroic saga of these larger than life figures like Lee and Jackson."

They then discuss why it is "Pickett's Charge" and not "Longstreet's Charge." Here the answer is rather simple... nobody liked Longstreet in the post-war era and he was not a Virginian like Pickett was. Pickett was a more desirable figurehead for the charge in the post-war era and his name was attached to the action.

They then have a good discussion of how Pickett's wife, after he dies in 1875, goes on to promote his name and legacy well into the 20th Century (she died in 1931). She would speak on her late husband and publish their correspondence after the war. Gordon would state that she believes most of the letters published by LaSalle Pickett were fabricated in an effort to promote his role and the lost cause in general.

Gerry then asks about David Blight's thesis that the country was ripe for reconciliation by 1900 but that it only could happen if the northern side gave up on the ideals for which they fought, what did Gordon think of that thesis? "I think Blight does a good job of focusing and bringing the focus back to race and making us realize that the myth and romanticism of the war are not by accident and not harmless. It was part of a very serious agenda to put aside hard questions about racial equality in this country which we really failed at. But it was easier to swallow romanticism and heroic stories of white men and women who did great things. There was this desire for reconciliation and this desire to feel that the country would move forward and not deal with these difficult issues."

They touch on a few other interesting topics here and there but never dive very deep into a specific question or thought. A constant complaint of mine with the podcast series at times. Overall it was a good interview when they got into the subject matter in more depth than just the surface level.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:45 pm 
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I used to listen to CW Talk with Gerry P all the time years ago and bought a number of good books because of the authors he interviewed. I've moved on to other longer or more substantive CW podcasts since then. Gerry talks a lot before even getting to the guest and with the commercials not enough gets discussed.

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EPISODE 1.20 -
April 1, 2005

Battlefield Historian
Guest: Donald Pfanz

Donald C. Pfanz, author of Richard S. Ewell: A Soldier's Life, talks about his role as historian at the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park.


Blake's Review:
Not surprisingly, the conversation starts with a chat about Harry Pfanz, Donald's father, who authored some of the more complete histories on the Battle of Gettysburg. They have a discussion about to what degree history can become microhistory and whether diving into the miniscule details of a battle is really overkill or proper history. Pfanz argues, and Gerry agrees, that so long as people show interest in every small detail of a battle then historians are justified in dissecting a battle minute-by-minute whenever possible.

They then turn to the main subject of Richard Ewell and his story. Why has Ewell been so largely forgotten by historians? "I'm not really sure, except that he didn't have the success that Jackson or Lee or Stuart did and didn't have quite that dashing aura of a Stuart. He was one of the most important Confederate leaders, served during the entire war, with the exception of the period when he was out injured. And he's a very fascinating character." They discuss Ewell's personal history some but, inevitably, return to Ewell's role in the war. Pfanz states that Ewell actually fights very well in the war but that people fixate today on the role he played in the Battle of Gettysburg.

Gerry then asks about Ewell's role at Gettysburg and what happened there. Couldn't Ewell have just attacked Cemetery Hill on July 1 and won the battle? Pfanz says that theory, "ignores the realities on the battlefield that day." He continues, "What it tends to ignore is the strength of the Federal position and the difficulties that Ewell was facing within his own corps. The Federals had a very strong position. They had 40 cannons, a massive amount of cannons up on that hill. They had clear fields of fire so the cannons could mow down anything that was coming at them. They didn't have a huge amount of infantry support, but they had at least one intact infantry brigade there. You take that together with the fragments of the other brigades that are now rallying up on that hill. You may have had as many as 10,000 to 12,000 Federals there protected by stone walls." Pfanz goes on to point out that Ewell's Corps had already marched a full day and two of his three divisions (all then currently available) had already been fighting for hours. Another of his brigades, Smith's, was out on the extreme flank where an enemy force was rumored to be moving around the Confederate flank (a false rumor). Rodes's Division had suffered heavy losses and Early's Division was shuffling 5,000 prisoners towards the rear.

"When you start looking at what Ewell actually had to attack that extremely formidable hill, he has perhaps 5,000 effective troops to attack a hill that is extremely strong, that has 40 cannon and maybe 10,000 to 12,000 troops defending it. It's easy to look back and say, well, they were riding the crest of success, they should have gone forward. But had he done so, I think most serious students of Gettysburg today agree that it would have been a massacre."

What of Trimble's report that he could have taken it even with a few hundred men? "That wasn't practical," says Pfanz, "the hill was heavily defended by artillery and infantry. And keep in mind that Ewell could see what was on the hill but he couldn't see what was behind it. Today we know where the rest of the Union army was, but those hills hid where the rest of the army was. And if you are Ewell you can assume that if you've seen two corps, and there are seven, that the others are not too far away. And as far as he knows he may run into a lot more troops that he bargained for."

Pfanz also questions why, if Lee had wished the hill to be taken, he did not order an attack or reinforce Ewell with Anderson's Division which was arriving fresh on the battlefield in the afternoon. Further, Lee continued to advise Ewell to avoid a general engagement (even after all the fighting so far on the 1st). For all these reasons, Ewell opts not to attack Cemetery Hill. "But Ewell comes up with actually a pretty clever solution. Over to the left of Cemetery Hill is another hill called Culp's Hill. If the Confederates can take that hill they can maneuver the Federals off the other hill without a fight. So it will accomplish what Lee wants to accomplish without bringing on a general engagement. So Ewell starts making preparations to do that. The only problem is that for a variety of reasons, he is not able to attempt that move until the Federals are already able to occupy it and so that plan goes awry. But it is a good plan and if it had been carried out more effectively it would have accomplished everything he wanted to accomplish."

Gerry questions whether or not, even if Cemetery Hill falls on July 1, the Federals would have been defeated. He simply says they would have fallen back to the next hill and the battle would have gone on. Pfanz agrees with this and says Ewell succeeding wouldn't have necessarily meant a stunning Union defeat but rather just a shift for Meade's army to a different line.

They then have a long and interesting discussion about Pfanz's role in the National Park Service and his job at the Wilderness/Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania/Chancellorsville battlefields. Pfanz discusses the problems of battlefield preservation and urban sprawl then occurring (2005) and how in the next 20 years (meaning today in 2025) there would be nothing left of the battlefields which isn't preserved immediately. I daresay he was correct in that.

In the third segment they discuss the interpretation of the Civil War at the battlefields. This is a very interesting chat as the NPS changed the way they interpreted battlefields in an attempt to bring light on the issues not often discussed at these places: slavery, women's issues, and the civilian impact. Pfanz and Gerry both agree that these are important issues which deserve to be discussed but Pfanz doubts the necessity of discussing them out of context at battlefields. He talks about Fredericksburg's plantations and the opportunity to talk about slavery there as being appropriate. But trying to talk about it in the context of the Battle of the Wilderness makes less sense and seems forced. He also states that the vast majority of people visiting battlefields are there to learn about the battle and not about deeper issues of what caused the war. There are whole museums dedicated to those issues but you can only experience the battlefield by visiting them (in other words you can't go to a museum in Richmond and experience what it was like on Cemetery Hill). He seems to question the wisdom of wasting valuable space at visitors center to try to force a narrative which is repeated at every battlefield site which visitors of multiple battlefields will find redundant and repetitive. Isn't it better to just concentrate on the battle itself and its immediate impact on the specific area (including women, slaves and the locals when relevant)? He brings up very solid points.

Overall a good interview with Pfanz which touches on numerous Civil War topics from the war and the preservation of battlefields today.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2025 7:56 pm 
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I enjoyed listening this interview some point last year while driving. Pfanz unfortunately passed away the other week

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2025 12:44 pm 
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EPISODE 1.21 -
April 8, 2005

War in the West
Guest: Larry J. Daniel

Larry J. Daniel, author of Days of Glory: The Army of the Cumberland, 1861-1865, shares his thoughts on where the war was decided.


Blake's Review:
One of the better interviews of Season One.

They begin by a little personal talk and I discover that Larry Daniel (as of 2005) was a Methodist minister in Memphis and wrote historical non-fiction simply as a hobby. I did not realize that. When asked why he doesn't write a book specifically on religion in the Civil War, Daniel gives an answer any sane person might give, "because that would feel more like work than fun." I get it :)

They then discuss the "revisionist" work going on in the western theater of the Civil War. More and more historians are turning to the western theater and presenting new histories on the armies and the campaigns. Daniel defines his use of the word "revisionist" (which is often frowned upon) by saying that "Every history book in some way revises that which come before. We have new evidence to work with."

They then discuss Daniel's book on the Army of the Cumberland. Daniel talks about the poor corps commanders in the army with McCook and Crittenden both failing repeatedly in their roles. Daniel sees both as over their head who both were deservingly dismissed after Chickamauga.

What about Rosecrans? "A very brilliant man, a very capable man, whose personality traits unfortunately may have been his undoing. He had a very violent temper. He was a very religious man, he was a Roman Catholic, and according to his fellow officers a bit of a crank on the subject. He reveled in theological debate. Despite that fact he could often curse like a sailor which he differentiated from using the Lord's name in vain. He was a very excitable person, unlike Grant who was calm and reserved, Rosecrans was excitable and in battle he would get so excited as to stutter at times." Daniel then brings up an amusing point that, "that's the more normal reaction, I'm more curious about Grant and how he is unflappable in battle. I can understand people like Rosecrans because that's how I would be in battle, excitable." Interesting observation. "But Rosecrans had a temper and he could just explode."

Daniel then talks about how people view the Army of Tennessee as a broken army with poor leadership "and we think mythically that the Army of the Cumberland was unified but the exact same issues were going on in the Army of the Cumberland. There were disloyalties and cliques in an army that was much more paralyzed by politics and the issue of the emancipation proclamation which was a big issue in the Army of the Cumberland."

They then talk about George Thomas who Daniel is critical of in his writings and which he laughs about because, as Gerry says, "there is a Cult of Thomas" which defends the general vehemently. Daniel says he is confronted by those people because he even "dares to raise some issues about him and to take another look at this." Daniel explained that Thomas defenders are often using post-war sources which are outdated now and fail to hold up against "contemporary evidence."

Gerry asks if Daniel see's any difference between eastern and western Confederate soldiers. Daniel responds that the obvious issue is morale. "I think that the issue of morale can be addressed that the morale in the Army of Tennessee was from the bottom up and in the Army of Northern Virginia is was from the top down. It was all centered in Lee."

Gerry asks one of his favorite questions in Season One, "what about reenactments?" Daniel sees them as perfectly fine and just a way for people to connect to history.

Why isn't religion written about more in Civil War books, Gerry asks. Daniel answers, simply, that the goal of publishers is still to sell books and that the majority of readers are still looking for action books and biographies, and that books on the religious aspects of the soldiers or the war are harder to sell.

Daniel then talks about Albert Castel and how he really appreciates his writing style and mentions his book "Decision in the West" and how it remains "the quintessential campaign study book."

Overall it is a very enjoyable interview in which they stay on topic and cover many various Civil War issues of interest.

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