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 Post subject: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:55 am
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Location: Bouches-de-l’Elbe
Gentlemen,
when is it possible to eliminate a unit(formed unit, not skirmisher) in a melee besides bringing it down to zero strength?
AFAIK if the optional rule "No Melee Eliminations" is off, a unit can be destroyed if it looses a melee and has no retreat hex, is that correct?
What I also saw, despite the optional rule "No Melee Eliminations" turned ON, that a unit that was routed & isolated against a river and completely surrounded was show as overrun in a melee. So despite "No Melee Eliminations" active the unit was destroyed although not by being brought down to zero strength.

Are ther other situations when a melee will destroy a unit without bringing it down to zero strength?

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Capitaine Christian Hecht
La Grande Armée - IIIe Corps d'Armée - 3ème Division d'Infanterie
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 Post subject: Re: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:25 am 
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Location: TN, USA
Under Melee Modifiers in the User's Manual, page 27, units that are both routed and isolated defend with a strength of zero.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Yes, Routed Isolated eliminations are inherent to the game if the Isolation rule is turned on I believe. Has nothing to do with the NME rule.

Was chatting with Andy Moss about the NME rule and we both agree that it would be nice if units that are Isolated for more than one turn (but not routed) would be susceptible to removal based on a variable number during melee.

Also units that are NO AMMO should surrender easier too. NO AMMO doesnt happen to often but in this era you had battalions toss down their muskets if surrounded or faced by a superior foe.

Yes, wish in one hand and .. in the other and see which one fills up faster! :frenchlol:

Ok - next topic ;)

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
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 Post subject: Re: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Thanks Bill.

Regarding Isolation, a tightly surrounded unit should be easy to overrun, at least as I understand.
1. Isolation lowers the moral by 1 level.
2. A tightly surrounded unit can get fired upon Enfilade, what lowers the moral by 2.
If now even meleed to force a moral check, the chance of failure is very high
Alone this should make such a unit quickly route so it can get overrun.

I think about adjusting my current Optional Rules set so that such "easy" eliminations are possible, I just miss a way to take prisoners, all the damage that can be done is only by fire or melee, and melee usually costs the attacker more than the defender.
Turning "No Melee Eliminations" OFF seems a step in that direction.
Besides that an opponent who tries to build a deep wall of units(what seems highly unhistorical) will be sorry for not giving room for the retreat of his first line.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Turning NME "Off" wont work. You end up with the return of the "Blitzkrieg" which is why the rule was put there in the first place.

We had a replay of an Eckmuhl game file show us the complete elimination of a brigade in ONE turn by a very well thought our series of attacks. That just didn't happen in the Napoleonic period.

Routing and Isolating takes some time but frankly its the only solution at present.

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Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Eliminations
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Yea, not even in phased gameplay I can turn on NME, all the defender gets between my move and my melee phase is a defensive fire phase what isn't nearly enough to counter the move & kill gameplay that would happen if NME would be turned OFF.

In my current game my opponent mentioned that enemy units that rout will pass through hexes with my skirmishers, is that true?

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