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 Post subject: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:23 pm 
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I have a scenario here and I wonder how the command test works in this case, the situation is that an Army commander, a Corps commander and several Brigade commanders are present but no Division commander.
In a command test would the bonus of a corps commander be applied onto the Brigade commanders or does that bonus just puff out because of the missing Division commander?

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:01 am 
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The command bonuses always filter down as long as there is a Brigade commander over the units. The lack of a Division commander in the chain of command will not stop the bonus from coming down the chain of command.

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:35 pm 
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So not even the OOB that purposely leaves out positions plays a role?
For example, it does not matter that there is no corps CO for the French Guard and that it has the Guard Infantry & Guard Cavalry as division attached to Napoleon while the Guard Artillery as brigade?

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I have a question on a particular scenario in an Austerlitz scenario, the Moravia Campaign, Ed Blackburn and I are playing. Czar Alexander's leadership value is an "@" rather than an "A". I'm thinking this must be a typo, but wonder what, if any, effect his may have on the command and control function.

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Jeff Mathes wrote:
I have a question on a particular scenario in an Austerlitz scenario, the Moravia Campaign, Ed Blackburn and I are playing. Czar Alexander's leadership value is an "@" rather than an "A". I'm thinking this must be a typo, but wonder what, if any, effect his may have on the command and control function.


Jeff - in the Moravia.oob file I see this for the Czar: L 3 6 212 Czar Alexander

in the Moravia_Alt.oob file I see this: L 3 6 212 Czar Alexander

I did a check using UltraEdit of all the OBs in Austerlitz. I could not find any @ entry for a leader. You probably should send a screenshot to Rich Hamilton to see if he has seen this before. CC me on the mail if you would. Maybe its something in the code that is showing the command ratings incorrectly.

You also might need to check to see what system font you are using.

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Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
So not even the OOB that purposely leaves out positions plays a role?
For example, it does not matter that there is no corps CO for the French Guard and that it has the Guard Infantry & Guard Cavalry as division attached to Napoleon while the Guard Artillery as brigade?


I often will attach a brigade at HQ level. Thus under Napoleon or Alexander might be an escort or "HQ Troops." These troops would only get a bonus of +1 from the Army leader and then +1 from their brigade leader for a total of +2. My intent here is that these are bodyguard forces and not combat troops. They could be allocated to join in the fighting if there was a desperate need for troops but usually not.

Thus there will not be a Corps and Division level leader for these troops and they will recover from Disorder slower than most troops.

In the case of the Guard at Marengo - there was not much of a Guard that this time: just three squadrons of cavalry and two battalions of infantry. And artillery never needs a leader for the most part. They never Disorder (I wish they would to be honest) and thus the Command Test never applies to them.

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Thanks Bill.

Bill Peters wrote:
And artillery never needs a leader for the most part. They never Disorder (I wish they would to be honest) and thus the Command Test never applies to them.

Interesting, I thought the rules about disorder apply also to artillery, at least I don't see an exception for it in the manual.

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Bill, not sure if I have your current email address, but I can send you a game file that clearly shows the Czar's leadership rating as "@". I have not found another leader in this scenario with an "A" leadership rating listed as "@".

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
Thanks Bill.

Bill Peters wrote:
And artillery never needs a leader for the most part. They never Disorder (I wish they would to be honest) and thus the Command Test never applies to them.

Interesting, I thought the rules about disorder apply also to artillery, at least I don't see an exception for it in the manual.


Things the cause Disorder:

Cavalry:

1. Moving into a hex with formed infantry.

2. Moving into a hex that has any terrain (except when using a road, path or pike) other than Open, Field or a bridge.

3. Moving through a hedge, wall, fortification or embankment hexside.

4. Charging and Melee (offensive - some defenders will not Disorder).

Infantry:

1. Moving in Line or Squre and failing the Disorder test for movement.

2. Moving in Line over a hedge, wall, fortification or embankment hexside.

3. Moving into a hex with cavalry.

4. Infantry units will disorder if they move into the same hex as another infantry unit in a different formation.

5. Participates in melee as the Attacker. (sometimes defenders will not Disorder)

Artillery:

None ... if you ever see Artillery Disorder please send me a game file with a password and hex location. They never Disorder due to melee which I think should be corrected. Meleeing a battery should cause Disorder if the conditions were right.

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
I have a scenario here and I wonder how the command test works in this case, the situation is that an Army commander, a Corps commander and several Brigade commanders are present but no Division commander.
In a command test would the bonus of a corps commander be applied onto the Brigade commanders or does that bonus just puff out because of the missing Division commander?


Christian - for some reason I did not read this correctly the first time. I need to know the name of the game you are playing and either the full filename title (.scn file) that you are playing OR the title of the scenario as seen in the DoR, AND the commander that is missing and I will look into it. I think what you were saying is that there is a division command level with brigades under it but there is no division COMMANDER (leader unit). So briefly:

1. Name of game
2. Name of scenario (either the .scn filename or the scenario title as seen in the DoR)
3. The name of the division where the commander is missing (i.e. 1st Division, II Corps)

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Bill Peters wrote:
Artillery:

None ... if you ever see Artillery Disorder please send me a game file with a password and hex location. They never Disorder due to melee which I think should be corrected. Meleeing a battery should cause Disorder if the conditions were right.


Thanks for the clarification, that adds another case where the CW series works differently compared to the Napoleonic series. I just saw a disorder artillery unit in a CW scenario and I also see disorder for artillery mentioned in the CW manual. Seems the area of artillery in the Napoleonic series could surely need some of the functions that are present in the CW series.



Bill Peters wrote:
So briefly:
1. Name of game
2. Name of scenario (either the .scn filename or the scenario title as seen in the DoR)
3. The name of the division where the commander is missing (i.e. 1st Division, II Corps)


1. Campaign Jena-Auerstedt
2. #01h_1_Schleiz.scn
3. French 3rd Division of I Corps

If I compare the French 3rd Division to the OOB scenario all of it is present except the division CO GD Drouet and 2 of the Phantom Colonels. I can imagine the Phantom Colonels maybe missing purposely for this small scenario but that Drouet is not present seems strange. I tried to find info about this action at Schleitz in the hope to see if Drouet was absent for a reason but I ended up with almost no info.

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 Post subject: Re: Missing commander in Command hierarchy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
Bill Peters wrote:
Artillery:

None ... if you ever see Artillery Disorder please send me a game file with a password and hex location. They never Disorder due to melee which I think should be corrected. Meleeing a battery should cause Disorder if the conditions were right.


Thanks for the clarification, that adds another case where the CW series works differently compared to the Napoleonic series. I just saw a disorder artillery unit in a CW scenario and I also see disorder for artillery mentioned in the CW manual. Seems the area of artillery in the Napoleonic series could surely need some of the functions that are present in the CW series.



Bill Peters wrote:
So briefly:
1. Name of game
2. Name of scenario (either the .scn filename or the scenario title as seen in the DoR)
3. The name of the division where the commander is missing (i.e. 1st Division, II Corps)


1. Campaign Jena-Auerstedt
2. #01h_1_Schleiz.scn
3. French 3rd Division of I Corps

If I compare the French 3rd Division to the OOB scenario all of it is present except the division CO GD Drouet and 2 of the Phantom Colonels. I can imagine the Phantom Colonels maybe missing purposely for this small scenario but that Drouet is not present seems strange. I tried to find info about this action at Schleitz in the hope to see if Drouet was absent for a reason but I ended up with almost no info.


I added in the missing division commander to the scenario for the next update. Thanks for pointing this out!

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Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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