Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Are the maps created from the West Front Map Editor useable within the HPS series?

Thanks in advance!

Not sure. The maps from EF can be used as the basis, then converted to the Napoleonic format but I don't know about those from WF

Mark

Mark, I have found my West Front copy and I know I have, somewhere in the house, East Front.

Are there any directions on conversion from the East Front format to the Napoleonic format?

If I can create maps using the WF/EF editors, I was thinking of making some Peninsula and 1805-1807 scenarios. I would like to some early Prussian scenarios but I lack the graphics.

Ken - no, you cant make new games for the current fully patched version of Eckmuhl or any version of NRC, Waterloo or Wagram - only if you use the Eckmuhl 1.0 version or some of the early patches for that title and thus lose out on the later patches which fixed several important issues.

The maps were locked to protect the ability to create future games. Long story (and I wont go into the pros and cons of whether it was right to do this) but the short of it is you can play alot of the modules out there with Eckmuhl 1.0-1.2 (not sure on the last version capable) but after 2.0 the engine was locked. Check with some of the guys like Stephane Chicouri who has an excellant set of modules for download.

The downside is that you wont have the most up to date engine and editors that we have put out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

Thanks Bill. Although that is a shame.

Sorry guys, I didn't read the original question properly. I missed the bit about HPS series !

Mark

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />Ken - no, you cant make new games for the current fully patched version of Eckmuhl or any version of NRC, Waterloo or Wagram - only if you use the Eckmuhl 1.0 version or some of the early patches for that title and thus lose out on the later patches which fixed several important issues.

The maps were locked to protect the ability to create future games. Long story (and I wont go into the pros and cons of whether it was right to do this) but the short of it is you can play alot of the modules out there with Eckmuhl 1.0-1.2 (not sure on the last version capable) but after 2.0 the engine was locked. Check with some of the guys like Stephane Chicouri who has an excellant set of modules for download.

The downside is that you wont have the most up to date engine and editors that we have put out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<b><font color="yellow">FOOD FOR THOUGHT</font id="yellow"></b>

The BIG downside of <u>all</u> of this is that it just might kill this series entirely.

What I mean is that there is a Napoleonic game in the works right now by Double Shot Design http://www.doubleshotdesign.com/index.htm through Matrix Games that will have :

<font color="orange"><b>Black Powder Wars: Battles of Napoleon</b></font id="orange">
BPW: Battles of Napoleon covers tactical combat in the age of Napoleon.


- PBEM, solitaire and hotseat capability
- 2D maps and unit counters
- Full editor
- 100 meter hexes at 10 minutes a turn
- Challenging AI
- Detailed combat, movement, morale and C2

Battles of Napoleon will ship with over a dozen scenarios and a FULL
EDITOR. The user will have the ability to recreate any battle of the
period. The editor will include the ability to create orders of battle, maps, scenarios, and even incorporate new graphics.

<font color="red"><b>It will be a we-go game, so there won't be the need for all of our crazy house rules. Movement will even accrue fatigue in this game.</b></font id="red">

<b><font color="yellow">If it so much as breaks even, there will be:</font id="yellow"></b>

<font color="orange"><b>Campaigns of Napoleon</b></font id="orange">

Why play a single battle? Why not a campaign game? Well, the answer is in the next offering by DSD, Campaigns of Napoleon . Campaigns of Napoleon (CoN) is the next project on the horizon following the release of the tactical game. CoN will allow the user to play at the operational level and seamlessly transition into a tactical battle. The results will then be incorporated back into the campaign engine.

--------------------------------

So, we will have a choice. It will be a choice between a game that gives us <font color="orange">everything</font id="orange"> or what we have. The INWC has already recognized "Battles of Napoleon" and will accept it for club use as soon as it is released.

Competition is good.

Rick

<center>Lieutenant Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>

I fully applaud what Doubleshot is trying to do BUT they dont have stellar graphics. That will hurt them in the sales area just like it probably did for us.

I dont look at the game as competition. I look at it as another fine addition to the games market.

Yes, folks only have so much money to spend but based on what I have seen on the screenshots and all that is being spread about the game it wont diminish our sales that much as everyone I have talked to who buys our titles as they come out is going to probably buy Doubleshots title as well.

And folks that buy the Doubleshot games will probably be referred here as well and thus we will get free PR from the Doubleshot folks! This is called the Law of Reciprical Advertising. One product actually promotes another indirectly if you think about it. You see comparison ads about Coke tasting better than Pepsi. It makes folks want to try Pepsi out. They do and Coke just lost a sale! Or should I say Pepsi just gained one and Coke will probably get purchased too. I know that we bought both for our meetings at work.

I am all for the game being added to the club if its good. It will bring more folks over to see the HPS products as well! (added by edit) And it will bring new members our way as well. That surely cant hurt the club one bit.

Best wishes to the guys at Doubleshot. I plan on buying the game when it comes out too. And if its a good game as I suspect I wont have a problem at all giving it a good review on this forum.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

Sure, they might not be pretty little counters <font color="orange">right now,</font id="orange"> but please be sure to note that the graphics are pre-Beta. Things are way early too for them right now. Also, don't forget that the opportunity for <font color="orange">incorporating new graphics</font id="orange"> is a big selling point about this game.

That of course raises the question : If the graphics do not change, will one want a game that has great 2D graphics that only incrementally improves (while there is LOTS of room to improve) or does one want a game with fair 2D graphics (that you can change) that covers <u>all the bases</u> tactically speaking without the need for many house rules for the <u>entire</u> Napoleonic period?

I see it as competition plain and simple. I will still buy the next Napoleonic title (hopefully 1813) from HPS, <font color="orange"><b>yet it is inescapable that the bar has been raised.</b></font id="orange">

I am just hoping HPS notices and acts accordingly. It is not a bad thing to talk about this. It benefits us all. I am just praying that we don't end up with an Emperor who is unable to see that he is without any clothes.

Rick

<center>Lieutenant Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Sure, they might not be pretty little counters <font color="orange">right now,</font id="orange"> but please be sure to note that the graphics are pre-Beta. Things are way early too for them right now. Also, don't forget that the opportunity for <font color="orange">incorporating new graphics</font id="orange"> is a big selling point about this game.

That of course raises the question : If the graphics do not change, will one want a game that has great 2D graphics that only incrementally improves (while there is LOTS of room to improve) or does one want a game with fair 2D graphics (that you can change) that covers <u>all the bases</u> tactically speaking without the need for many house rules for the <u>entire</u> Napoleonic period?

I see it as competition plain and simple. I will still buy the next Napoleonic title (hopefully 1813) from HPS, <font color="orange"><b>yet it is inescapable that the bar has been raised.</b></font id="orange">

I am just hoping HPS notices and acts accordingly. It is not a bad thing to talk about this. It benefits us all. I am just praying that we don't end up with an Emperor who is unable to see that he is without any clothes.

Rick

<center>Lieutenant Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

First, if you are even distinctly trying to make a point that this new game has zero gamey moves you have to be joking. No piece of software on the market captures or portrays history correctly. You are pipedreaming on that one. Even Combat Mission which I like alot has gamey moves about it that need a few House Rules.

Second, graphics - there will be graphics that equal or better Battleground's? For the map? Good luck. That is the standard. And its too expensive to meet. Thus there is no way that this new game can possibly match what the players are used to in Napoleonics right there.

Third, "yet it is inescapable that the bar has been raised." Based on what? The game isnt out yet. Either show us some reason why we should believe this or your statement has no substance.

Fourth, there was no competition from Frank Hunter's games and they allowed you to fight the battles using some other game engine or board game. It was cheaper than both of the games in question here. Yet it didnt take. When the Doubleshot game has sold well and is in circulation widely I will believe that it can compete with HPS. Tim is going to have to be able to back his product for some time or it will just go the way of Age of Rifles - which by the way had a map editor.

Summary - I dont mind one-shot games with modules (West Front by Talonsoft). Its a good concept.

But your claims are unsubstantiated. When the game comes out and its sold well then that will prove to me that it will give the Napoleonic series a run for its money.

And note: the boardgaming hobby has many companies. I welcome a new company such as Doubleshot. I am just wondering if it can perpetuate itself as Talonsoft did or HPS has. That will be the true test in the software world whether it can compete.

So far all I hear is air. Once the game comes out we will know more. Until then its just a very hopefull title. And I wish Tim and co. the best.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

Bill,

Age of Rifles is still a pretty good game despite its age (1996) and dreadful graphics. It's still quite playable - I've even managed to get it to work on my XP machine with a bit of tinkering - and there's a Yahoo group with about 750 or so members that still play the game and create new scenarios:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/age ... =183873057

Of course the game hasn't been sold for years now - and unfortunately hasn't been patched since the 90s - but, despite its various faults, it still has a number of features that could usefully be incorporated into the HPS engine, for instance:

More formations - march & attack column, line & supported line, defensive, and a "disordered" formation for recovering fatigue faster.

For artillery - gun capture/recrw/spike feature, retreat by prolong, the ability for meleed batteries to have some chance of limbering up and retreating with some gun losses rather than automatically losing every single gun.

A fatigue for excessive movement feature - units that use their full movement allowance will clock up fatigue.

A terrain damage feature - guns bombarding a village will turn the hex into rubble and may set it on fire, depending on the weather. Troops marching through a cornfield will trample down the corn after a few units have passed through, etc.

There are various other interesting features, including units getting pinned down and a reaction fire system that often results in multiple units on both sides exchanging fire after a single unit decides to fire.

Capt Rich White
4th Cavalry Brigade
Cavalry Corps
Anglo-Allied Army

Bill,
You're entirely correct. The game hasn't come out yet. Yes, gamey moves exist in every game.

These are <u>some</u> of the reasons why I will say that the bar has been raised. They simply cannot be ignored. :

<font color="orange">We'll be able to wargame during any part of the Napoleonic Era with a full map and unit editor rather than a campaign that has been chosen for us.

Cavalry will be able to skirmish when dismounted.

There will be march fatigue along with combat fatigue.

Casualties listed as killed, wounded, and captured -not just for leaders.

True weather conditions.

A real Fog of War.

Battalion guns.

Two types of attack columns besides a march column.

Pontoon Trains.

Units with Experience and Training characteristics.

Leaders with Leadership, Competence, Bravery, and Charisma characteristics.

Each unit could be ordered to: attack, defend, assault, delay, scout, support, pursue, reserve, hold, guard, advance guard, rear guard, screen, garrison, etc....

Size of units: infantry battalion, cavalry regiment, artillery battery, squadron, company, and patrol.

The building of defenses, pontoons and bridges.

Forced marches.

Stragglers.

Pre-melee morale tests.

Infantry may initiate a melee on cavalry if they are 25% or less than the infantry unit’s strength.

Cavalry cannot charge if “blownâ€

I meant to say earlier that all the orange features listed will exist on top of what we already have. Who doesn't want more?

Also, comparing Frank Hunter's operational level game to our tactical level game is kind of like comparing grapefruits and oranges. They're different and I never thought that his game could take over JT's.

<center>Lieutenant Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>

Rick - no doubt about it - the new game has generated interest and I am looking forward to seeing Tim and Frank get this one out on the streets.

Will this impact my royalties (which is how I make my living at present)? I dont know and I am not going to lose sleep over it.

Have started posting over on the Doubleshot forum. The names look familiar over there! [;)]

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

Rick,

According to the Matrix site this game is an IGOUGO (turn based):

BLACK POWDER WARS: BATTLES OF NAPOLEON
Game Genre : Tactical
Complexity : Intermediate
Game Theatre : Napoleonics
Play Style : Turn-Based IGOUGO - Top Down
Release Date Coming Soon
Developer : Double Shot Design

-------------

Would be good to see it make it, but if it's anything like the last Nap title I was asked to test for them (La Grande Armee At Austerlitz) I'll pass. I couldn't even get that game to run on my system after 2 rather huge patches.

Additionally, due to the simple fact that they are putting all their eggs in one basket you can be assured it will have a short support life. A couple of years (tops) after it is out and there won't be any further fixes or enhancements...there's no economical reason to do so. Besides the fact that Matrix has a history of short runs with the bulk of their games.

Personally I like John's continued attention & enhancement of his games over the long run - I know more is on the way, and will continue to be so as long as the community is there to support it.

Regards,
Rich







Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon
21st Division
VII Corps, ADR

Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale