Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

[:)]This looks to be an interesting possibility for a good new Napoleonic game. I have played other Battlefront games and they are very good. Check out the links:

http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=2737

http://www.battlefront.com/products/les_grog/video.html


BG Ed Blackburn
Commanding 6th Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards

Ed,
I have been following this game since 2001 and it has come a very long way.

The coolest thing is that the latest video shows a melee (infantry and cavalry) for the very first time. The game is still under construction with more work to be done.

It certainly is raising eyebrows.

Its a first person commander game. I like how you are the army commander and give your orders to your corps commanders and they pass it on with no need for micromanagement. Even better is when you want to "take over" a unit, the game will let you.

I also like that it is in <b>real</b> time (not to be confused with realtime.) That is, one minute of game time equals one minute of real time with the ability to speed it up 10x.

Right now, its only the French, Russians and Austrians with many minor nations available. You do however get the Lestocq's Prussians in 1807. Brits and Prussians are planned for a later release.

LOTS of work has gone into this and I have a great feeling it will pay off.

Cheers,
Rick

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

Well, I have learned over the years that MUCH has been done to improve the game. With the movies released recently showing infantry and cavalry melees, I'd say a real big step has been taken.

The best way to know is by checking their Forum through :

http://www.battlefront.com/products/les_grog/news.html

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

Optimisticly, I'd say sometime after the first of the year. JMM, the designer wants to get it out ASAP.

Cheers,
Rick

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

Rick - is it We-Plot/We-Go like Combat Mission?

With We-Plot/We-Go you plot your move and your opponent does the same. Then the action takes place in real-time with the units moving at the same time. Then you do the process all over again.

If its real time like Total War or Age of Empires III I wont be interested in it.

If its We-Go/We-Plot they will get my dollars.


Bill Peters

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Bill,

No we-go with this one, yet is "essentially" the same. Let me explain.

The game is in REAL time as opposed to <font color="orange"><b>realtime.</b></font id="orange"> <font color="red">It is no clickfest</font id="red"> like <font color="orange">Total War,</font id="orange"> etc... as the battles proceed at the same pace speed that Napoleon or Kutuzov saw it happen. Now, that is realism, IMO.

<font color="orange">One minute of our everday clock time equals one minute of game time --with the ability to speed it up 10x.</font id="orange">

Feel pressed and need to think about your strategies when at a faster speed? Just slow down the game to normal speed and your orders will still go out to the various commands and units will still move, etc... Get up and go to the bathroom, do whatever and there is an excellent chance that you won't miss anything important --just like what a real Napoleonic commander experienced.

They describe this game as a first person commander game where you can actually play the role of Napoleon, Kutuzov, or Charles. Your orders go out by messenger and the commands under you execute them. No need for micromanagement here even though you <font color="orange">can</font id="orange"> micromanage any Regiment. For instance, you can play Napoleon for most of the battle where everything happens as it did for him. Then, when it is time to send in the Guard, you can pop in and command the Guard. You can go all the way down to Regimental level.

From their website:
<font color="orange">"Les Grognards allows you to relive the famous historical (and countless what-if) battles between the French, Russians and Austrian armies as well as a multitude of secondary nations and city states (Wurtemberg, Saxony, Poland, Italy, Denmark, Norway, Naples, etc...).

Les Grognards comes complete with ten major historical battles (including Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, Borodino), as well as powerful game editors to create Maps, Orders of Battle and Unit Doctrines (AI scripting).

In the 3D views, every infantry battalion and cavalry squadron is represented in approximately a 1 figure =10 men scale. This means an average battalion will show 70 soldiers and a single Regiment could have up to 8 battalions plus attached staff units for over 500 individually animated soldiers!"</font id="orange">

Please go here for more information and screenshots. (They even have movies of what the animations look like. One with melees was released the other day.)

http://www.battlefront.com/products/les_grog/index.html

In summary, its neither <font color="orange">Combat Mission</font id="orange"> or <font color="orange">Total War.</font id="orange"> It has some elements of both, (more so on the <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> side of things) yet in other ways it is better, IMO.

I recommend getting it, -or waiting (if you will) as I will get it and I WILL give an honest assessment of the game. If it is a dog, I won't hesitate to say that. If it is great, I won't hesitate to say that as well.

I have had the designer's earlier game <font color="orange">La Grande Armee at Austerlitz</font id="orange"> since 2001 which was the genesis for this game. <font color="orange">LGAA</font id="orange"> had some issues of which language was one of them. Many of us don't speak French. The designer has had TONs of help since then and I believe that he has overcome whatever issues existed then.

I know one thing for certain. Battlefront.com would not be backing this game if it was a dog. As a dedicated <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> player, I can attest that many folks at the <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> Forum have voiced many a desire for a Napoleonic <font color="orange">Combat Mission</font id="orange"> for years. While it doesn't have the pause between turns like<font color="orange"> CM</font id="orange"> does, <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> is incredibly close. This is especially so when one considers it is in 3D and that you can create your own battles -even randomly created ones.

Sorry for being so long winded. I hope that this answers your questions Bill. [:)]

Cordialement,
Rick

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Bill,

No we-go with this one, yet is "essentially" the same. Let me explain.

The game is in REAL time as opposed to <font color="orange"><b>realtime.</b></font id="orange"> <font color="red">It is no clickfest</font id="red"> like <font color="orange">Total War,</font id="orange"> etc... as the battles proceed at the same pace speed that Napoleon or Kutuzov saw it happen. Now, that is realism, IMO.

<font color="orange">One minute of our everday clock time equals one minute of game time --with the ability to speed it up 10x.</font id="orange">

Feel pressed and need to think about your strategies when at a faster speed? Just slow down the game to normal speed and your orders will still go out to the various commands and units will still move, etc... Get up and go to the bathroom, do whatever and there is an excellent chance that you won't miss anything important --just like what a real Napoleonic commander experienced.

They describe this game as a first person commander game where you can actually play the role of Napoleon, Kutuzov, or Charles. Your orders go out by messenger and the commands under you execute them. No need for micromanagement here even though you <font color="orange">can</font id="orange"> micromanage any Regiment. For instance, you can play Napoleon for most of the battle where everything happens as it did for him. Then, when it is time to send in the Guard, you can pop in and command the Guard. You can go all the way down to Regimental level.

From their website:
<font color="orange">"Les Grognards allows you to relive the famous historical (and countless what-if) battles between the French, Russians and Austrian armies as well as a multitude of secondary nations and city states (Wurtemberg, Saxony, Poland, Italy, Denmark, Norway, Naples, etc...).

Les Grognards comes complete with ten major historical battles (including Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, Borodino), as well as powerful game editors to create Maps, Orders of Battle and Unit Doctrines (AI scripting).

In the 3D views, every infantry battalion and cavalry squadron is represented in approximately a 1 figure =10 men scale. This means an average battalion will show 70 soldiers and a single Regiment could have up to 8 battalions plus attached staff units for over 500 individually animated soldiers!"</font id="orange">

Please go here for more information and screenshots. (They even have movies of what the animations look like. One with melees was released the other day.)

http://www.battlefront.com/products/les_grog/index.html

In summary, its neither <font color="orange">Combat Mission</font id="orange"> or <font color="orange">Total War.</font id="orange"> It has some elements of both, (more so on the <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> side of things) yet in other ways it is better, IMO.

I recommend getting it, -or waiting (if you will) as I will get it and I WILL give an honest assessment of the game. If it is a dog, I won't hesitate to say that. If it is great, I won't hesitate to say that as well.

I have had the designer's earlier game <font color="orange">La Grande Armee at Austerlitz</font id="orange"> since 2001 which was the genesis for this game. <font color="orange">LGAA</font id="orange"> had some issues of which language was one of them. Many of us don't speak French. The designer has had TONs of help since then and I believe that he has overcome whatever issues existed then.

I know one thing for certain. Battlefront.com would not be backing this game if it was a dog. As a dedicated <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> player, I can attest that many folks at the <font color="orange">CM</font id="orange"> Forum have voiced many a desire for a Napoleonic <font color="orange">Combat Mission</font id="orange"> for years. While it doesn't have the pause between turns like<font color="orange"> CM</font id="orange"> does, <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> is incredibly close. This is especially so when one considers it is in 3D and that you can create your own battles -even randomly created ones.

Sorry for being so long winded. I hope that this answers your questions Bill. [:)]

Cordialement,
Rick

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Rick - so where is the stoppage of play? How do you do a PBEM file?

I am not getting the concept. And Total War CAN be slowed down - you dont have to go at fast speed - you can slow it down and give orders at a slower pace just like you could in Age of Empires III.

No turns? Then what is the basis for a PBEM move? Until troops go bump?

I really like the CM concept. Explain more to me about how the stoppage of play operates. Obviously if its PBEM capable there has to be a point where you can stop play.

3d does nothing for me. The graphics to this game are blurred thus I will probably spend most of my time with the overhead feature. I do that alot with CM too but at least their graphics dont blur as you go off into the distance.

A game screen has to be sharp at all points. One user on the Battlefront board pointed out that the game doesnt have as high of a resolution as it could. I hope that after the game is released they fix that.

Bill Peters

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Bill,

Way below is the game's Features List.

The PBEM method will be similar to the PBEM method that <font color="orange">Combat Mission</font id="orange"> uses.

Your criticism of the game's <b><font color="yellow">ALPHA & BETA</font id="yellow"></b> graphics seems like a useless concern as games always progress and get better -especially those from Battlefront.com.

Just look at how <font color="orange">Combat Mission's</font id="orange"> graphics improved over the years and WILL improve with it's next incarnation with their modern wargame called <font color="orange">Combat Mission: Shock Force.</font id="orange">

<font color="orange">If you have any other questions feel free to go to their discussion Forum and ask it.</font id="orange"> Unlike other game developers and designers, JMM is VERY accessible. He answers almost every question that is asked of him. In this aspect, he is in a league way above everyone else.

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ulti ... forum;f=51

Here is the method PBEM will happen from a posting from JMM himself:
----------------------------------------------------
<b><font color="orange">2 gamers A & B
B sends (->) his OoB to A (*)
A creates the Battle with a map + 2 OoBs
A puts his units and he enters his orders
A -> file -> B
B puts his units and he enters his orders
B -> file -> A

FIRST STEP (15 minutes)
A plays the game
A -> file -> B
B looks at the Video1 and he enters his orders step2
B -> file -> A
A looks at the Video1 and he enters his orders step2
A -> file -> B

SECOND STEP (15 minutes)
B plays the game ....
----

(*)OoB is protected by a code.. so A may not know the B's OoB.

--------------------
JMM </font id="orange"></b>



<font size="4"><font color="green"><b><b>The game's Features list:</b></b></font id="green"></font id="size4">

----------------------------------------------------
<font color="yellow">• Authentic Napoleonic style combat from the years 1805-1814.

• Thrilling 3D battles with over 50,000 Infantry soldiers, Cavalry and Artillery crews shown - all fully animated!

• Single player action against the computer and multiplayer with up to 6 people on two sides.

• Internet, LAN and PBEM multiplayer modes.

• Variable speed play from real time 1 minute = 1 minute to accelerated 10x time where 6 seconds of real time = 1 minute of game time. PBEM mode played in 15 minute turns.

• Environmental effects such as rain, fog, snow and smoke.
• Units organized into historically accurate and individually controllable Regiments, Brigades, Divisions, Corps and Armies.

• Huge variety of troops types including; Sappers, Skirmishers, Grenadiers, Fusiliers, Chasseurs, Imperial, Middle and Young Guards, Hussars, Cuirassiers, Dragoons, Gendarmes, Carbiniers, Lancers and Mameluks among others.

• Variety of individually modeled and animated "personalities" such as Captains, Majors, Colonels, Flag and Standard Bearers and more.

• Play as any of 15 different major, minor and city state military powers including France, Russia, Austria, Wurtenmberg, Saxony, Poland, Italy and Naples.

• Exhaustively researched Table of Organization and Equipment for all the major combatants included.

• Over 1150 historical Regiments, 4000 unique commanders and 550 accurate military uniforms included.
• Comes with 10 historical battles including Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, Borodino with the ability to modify or create all new battles with included editors.

• Innovative 3 tiered Artificial Intelligence system models the difficulty and challenges of command in the early 19th century battlefield.

• 3 different game editors (Map, Order of Battle and Doctrine) allow you to build your own battles or modify the included ones, create your own armies and customize specific characteristics and abilities of any unit or commander.

• Create maps in size from 6 x 4.5 Km to 30 x 22.5 Km (over 660 square kilometers)

• Ability to create and design your own custom uniforms.

• Variety of camera views supported including exciting 3D Real World and Bird's Eye views plus a 3D Symbolic map and 2D Strategic Overview mode.

• Realistic combat resolution and modeling which takes into account such factors as orientation and density of unit formations, their training, combat effectiveness, fatigue and moral.

• Advanced morale engine accounts for a variety of elements including proximity to friendly commanders and units, weather effects, level of sustained losses, overall fatigue and more.</font id="yellow">



Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

[8D]Rick and Bill, personally I love CM so I don't see how this game can miss the mark since it is incorporating all the best features of that system. The graphics from the screenshots look quite good and they claim to be paying close attention to the uniform details. In addition you will be able to create your own uniforms.


Brigadier Ed Blackburn
Commanding 6th Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards

" Here is the method PBEM will happen from a posting from JMM himself:
----------------------------------------------------
2 gamers A & B
B sends (->) his OoB to A (*)
A creates the Battle with a map + 2 OoBs
A puts his units and he enters his orders
A -> file -> B
B puts his units and he enters his orders
B -> file -> A

FIRST STEP (15 minutes)
A plays the game
A -> file -> B
B looks at the Video1 and he enters his orders step2
B -> file -> A
A looks at the Video1 and he enters his orders step2
A -> file -> B

SECOND STEP (15 minutes)
B plays the game ....
----

(*)OoB is protected by a code.. so A may not know the B's OoB."

Gotcha Rick. All you needed to say is that it was WePlot-WeGo and I would have seen your point. Its just like CM then and that is grand.

CMs graphics havent improved all that much. Put in graphics like Close Combat and you would have made your point.

And I have read the forum. JMM didnt refute my claim of the CM format but then again he didnt address it either. Might have been the way that I added a question after my statement that the game would be like CM to another gamer. Thus I pretty much was sure that it was like CM until you confused me!! [:D][:D]

But that doesnt take much to do!! [;)]

(which way did he go George, which way did he go?)[:p]

Bill Peters

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Hey Bill,
I must admit that your question started a learning experience for me. I saw JMM's description of PBEM some time ago, but I had forgot it. I just wasn't sure until I re-read it.

I know some folks like realistic graphics for a computer game and <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> would certainly benefit greatly from some like <font color="orange">Close Combat.</font id="orange"> I just wonder how great do they need to be for the initial release? We have been waiting for so long that I have to admit that I'd buy the thing if they weren't as good as they are.

You see, I'm like you in that I play the HPS games in 2D as well. When a cavalry unit charges an opposing cavalry unit, my imagination gets a ride.

A 3D game like <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> is a bonus to me. I will end up buying a newer computer just for it even though I will initially play it in 2D symbolic mode. [:)]

Cheers,
Rick
[:)]

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

From the hard work of another person, I bring you the below FAQ thread at http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ulti ... 1;t=000117

Check back periodicly as it most likely will be updated.

Cheers,
Rick
----------
HistWar: Les Grognards FAQ

<font color="orange"><b>-General Info-</b></font id="orange">

<b>What are the system requirements?</b>

Currently specs are aimed for 1.5GHz, 5200 Nvidia GPU or Radeon 9500 or better, 384mb RAM+.
For a below recommended configuration, it will be possible to play without the 3D animation... just a 2D map AND a 3D Symbolic view.

<b>Will the game ship with a printed manaual?</b>

Yes!

<b>What role does the player take?</b>

The player’s main role is Commander-in-Chief. His duty is to create his armies, define his doctrine and, once on the battlefield, tactically command those armies.

<b>Which armies are represented?</b>

Primarily the French, Russians and Austrian and various secondary states. Around 15 are in game as well as some legion armies like Irish, Portuguese, Wurtenmberg, Saxony, Poland, Italy and Naples.

<b>What scale does the 3d engine use?</b>

The in game scale will be one 3d man = 10 men, with support up to 50,000 3d units!

<b>Where are the British?</b>

They are not covered in the scope of this release, a possible future expansion would/could add them.

<b>So what battles does the game cover?</b>

The game will ship with 10 historical battles including Austerlitz, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, and Borodino.

<b>Is this real time?</b>

Yes, 1 game minute equals 1 minute of real-time. In other words a 10 hours battle will take 10 hours to play if not paused. You can't issue orders during pause. You have the opportunity to speed the game up to 10 times. However in PBEM games it will be played as WE-GO much like combat mission.

<b>How large are the maps?</b>

Based on game scale the maps can be up to 600 square kilometers! Or be as small as 6 X 4.5 kilometers.

<b>Is victory based on objectives?</b>

As of right now it is based on "breaking" the enemy army.

<b>When is the planned release date?</b>

Very late '05 to early '06. Nothing is set in stone.

<b>Will there be a playable demo?</b>

Yes a playable demo will be released.

<b>What about future expansions?</b>

If all works out, the planned next game of this series will include operational level command as well covering the Prussian Campiagn of 1806.

<b>Are beta testing positions open?</b>

No, Battlefront as well as the developer are handling all internal testing matters.


<font color="orange"><b>-Official, Updates and Fixes-</b></font id="orange">

The game is yet to be released.


<font color="orange"><b>-Game play-</b></font id="orange">

<b>What types of units are modeled?</b>

A large variety of troops, among them; Sappers, Skirmishers, Grenadiers, Fusiliers, Chasseurs, Imperial, Middle and Young Guards, Hussars, Cuirassiers, Dragoons, Gendarmes, Carbiniers, Lancers and Mameluks.

<b>What types of weather are modeled?</b>

Fog, snow and rain will be modeled and will thus have an effect on combat.

<b>Are tutorials included with the game?</b>

Yes! the demo will also include a turtorial.

<b>How will the command structure work?</b>

Basically there are 3 levels of AI each working together to follow your orders. From grand tactical to regiment.

<b>What's this about an operational map?</b>

There is a 2d map which offers an overview of the battle, it is of the same scale as the 3d map.

<b>Are reinforcements modeled?</b>

Yes, they will show up in game based on a delayed arrivial in the OOB.

<b>Are couriers modeled?</b>

To a degree yes, though you will not "see" them.


<b>How is scouting modeled?</b>

Basically you send either light infantry or light cavalry to patrol which will send you back a general message on enemy strength.

<b>Does the artillery model take into accound weather and terrain types?</b>

Yes shot effectivness will be influnced by ground conditions. (Mud causing less ricochet from solid shot)

<b>Are different shell types modeled for the artillery?</b>

Yes, among them solid, and canister.

<b>Are defensive structures in game?</b>

Yes!

<b>Is there a square formation avalible?</b>

Yes! along with 4 other formations. (see below)

<b>So how does the game handle melee/charges?</b>

There are 3 formations: line, column by platoon, column by division.
Line fights by the fire, and tries to stop the opponent during the charge. If it's not possible, the unit quickly routs. (there are some exceptions : ie the Imperial Guard)
Column by platoon: this unit charges on the last 100 meters... If the opponent is in the Column too, it's possible there is a melee. LG use the parameters (moral, fatigue, type, strength...)to find the behavior of each unit.
Column by division: this unit shoots its opponent before charging.
To summarize, melees are quick; there is a melee when the 2 opponents have a good moral and all parameters are close.

<b>How are prisoners handled?</b>

Prisoners move to the Operational line but it can try to escape if no unit controls them. (Within 1,000m for control)

<b>Is there a follow unit key for the camera? </b>

Yes there is two modes of tracking...
a) subjective view.. the camera is around 2 meters above the unit you have choosen.
b) locked view.. camera locked at the middle of the unit.

<b>How is morale handled?</b>

Take a look at the below summary of morale factors.
-Losses (instantaneous, global, mean on the march)
-Losses : Chief of Corps(+-), colonel(+-), flags(-)
-Routed units (-) for the unit itself or (+) if the unit routs his opponent
-Seen by either Commander in Chief or Chief of Corps(+)
-Visiblity of a friendly Guard unit or elite Unit(+)
-Threaten against the line of operation(+)
-Deployement on a defensive line(+)
-Victorious fighting of a friendly unit(+)
-Threaten against his line of operation(-)
-Friendly Guard or Elite routed(-)
-Attacked by bombardement(-)
-Fatigue(-)
-Formation (moral decreases with the density... column of platoon, column of divison, line...)


<font color="orange"><b>-Graphics-</b></font id="orange">

<b>So what's so different with this engine?</b>

Notice that the engine uses fully 3d objects and not 2d sprites...


<font color="orange"><b>-Sound-</b></font id="orange">

Information N/A right now...


<font color="orange"><b>-Modding-</b></font id="orange">

<b>Does the game ship with modding tools?</b>

Yes the game will ship with editors which will allow the changing of Maps, Orders of Battle and Unit Doctrines (AI scripting).

<b>Which 3d objects in game can be replaced?</b>

All 3d objects other than the soliders themselves should be fully moddable.

<b>Do the models features LODs?</b>

Yes all in games models feature Level Of Detail Layers.

<b>Which in game textures can be changed/modded?</b>

You will be able to change all textures (soldier, ground, building...)


<font color="orange"><b>-Multilayer-</b></font id="orange">

<b>Which modes of MP are supported and through what types of connection?</b>

Les Grognards can be either played against the computer (solo), or Multi-player via LAN or Internet (TCP/IP) with up to 6 players divided into 2 sides with each player controlling either all or a part of an Army. Play by e-mail (PBEM) with 15 minute game sequences (turns) is also supported.
----------

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord

"Yes, 1 game minute equals 1 minute of real-time. In other words a 10 hours battle will take 10 hours to play if not paused. <b>You can't issue orders during pause.</b> You have the opportunity to speed the game up to 10 times. However in PBEM games it will be played as WE-GO much like combat mission."

[:p]

Sounding good.

Bill Peters

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]