American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Apologies there gang! I don't post a lot in the tavern so I'm always forgetting club protocol about stating your rank and army when you post. No ghost, just a Reb with a lot of defeats (mainly due to some bad tactics) and a few victories to his credit.

I am still definitely in "learning mode" when it comes to HPS tactics, which is the reason I started the thread in the first place. Some of the tactics do seem a-historical which is in conflict with my reading of the period.

Lt. Col. Gilbert Collins
III/I/II Brigade
Army of Alabama

I personally like the guns in sections to capture the effect of different gun types. I'd hate to consolodate on one type to keep it in one icon. Just a touch of detail I like to see...



Major General Dirk Gross
XIV Corps/AoC

Ned,

I really enjoyed watching that replay as the Iron Brigade got bloodied trying to break my line.[:D]I too was a little suprised by the casualties you took - over a 100 casualties to my 30 in each case[B)]. I hear what everyone is saying, and I've said the same things at some point. But these results, attacking a mediocre yet fresh division sitting behind favorable terrain and fortifications and being repulsed seems to be close to realistic to me. Do it again. PLEASE!!

BG Ted Huffman
5/2/I/AoNV/CSA

NED!

Did you do what Ted just said?

General Walter, sir!

Take General Simms under your wing please, and help learn him the fine art of kicking Rebel booty. [:p]
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JUST KIDDDING, NED!! Been there and done that myself, too many times! [:D]

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!

Ohhhh, Gen. Simms needs tactical advice, no problem.[^] General the best way to attack a fortified line is to move your troops adjacent by backing into the hexes. This allows your troops to know which way to run so they won't get confused. Artillery should be handled just like the game AI does, attack head on with guns limbered. Nothing puts fear into the Reb line like seeing a battalion of artillery charging them at full speed.[:D][:D][:D]

BG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)

Hey! Hey! Now let's be nice. Ted's backed himself into a hole just like a groundhog and every part of his line is fortified and in good terrain. Besides, ya'll said that the defense had no chance (couldn't swat a fly if I remember Ted's words correctly) and all that I had to do was walk up there and thumb my nose at 'em and half of 'em would die from heart attacks and the other half would run. To boot, I was running out of turns to do something seeing as I only had about 210 turns left (that's literally - no joke as this is the seventh battle of a Gettysburg Campaign and a 272 turn scenario when we started if I remember correctly). I've spent so much time moving units that I was just going to move some of them off of the map to make life easier for me but decided that they might as well take a few Rebs with 'em as they go.

Brig Gen Ned Simms
2/VI/AoS/USA
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.

Guys,

As you now, the engine has been worked on and is still being updated, but once thing I have learned from reading these boards, is that seldom is there a consensus about the solution. This is why all new upgrades are given as optional rules. I don't believe these new upgrades have been played enough to determine their overall effect on game tactics. No longer should you have to worry about being surrounded by leaders, supply wagons and limbered arty. Density fire has been added, and full fire prior to a melee has been added. Also, VPs for supply wagons have been added. I think before any new engine changes are introduced, these must be throughly tested. And yes, they were tested before being added, but they still need your attention. So play with these new rules "ON" and see what happens!!

Rich

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
This is why all new upgrades are given as optional rules.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If it just were true.

Unfortunately, the infamous "disruption of all artillery by units routing through" rule that nobody asked for and nobody likes (as a poll recently proved) was made a decidedly non-optional mandatory rule.

Probably because if it were optional nobody would ever use it.

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
AoS

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KWhitehead</i>
<br />Ohhhh, Gen. Simms needs tactical advice, no problem.[^] General the best way to attack a fortified line is to move your troops adjacent by backing into the hexes. This allows your troops to know which way to run so they won't get confused. Artillery should be handled just like the game AI does, attack head on with guns limbered. Nothing puts fear into the Reb line like seeing a battalion of artillery charging them at full speed.[:D][:D][:D]

BG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


Ah-tiller-AY: Fix bayonets! For-WAHD, MARCH!

(There, that ought to run them Yanks off [:D] !)


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

David W. Mallory
ACW - General, Chief of the Armies, Confederate States of America & Cabinet Member
CCC - Sergeant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Deaprtment, Colonial American Army

Hell, I'm just gettng frustrated with any tactics at all. The way my luck is running I doubt that I could play the AI without losing!

General Mark Nelms
Union Chief of the Army
Cabinet Member

"I doubt that I could play the AI without losing!"

Don't worry Mark, many people play Al and lose. [:p] hehehe....

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!

Gen Walter,

That rule isn't as recent as those that I am refering too. In fact, the surround rule is also not optional. So perhaps it would be more accurate if I said "MOST" new rules are optional!!!

Respectfully yours,

Fld Lt. Walker

P.S. The rule is not just for arty, it disrupts ALL units that have routed units pass through their hex. And though this is inconvenient, it's logical that when 700 scared men pass through your neatly packed lines, your going to become disrupted. So where is the fault in the rule?



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
This is why all new upgrades are given as optional rules.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If it just were true.

Unfortunately, the infamous "disruption of all artillery by units routing through" rule that nobody asked for and nobody likes (as a poll recently proved) was made a decidedly non-optional mandatory rule.

Probably because if it were optional nobody would ever use it.

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
AoS


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Rich,

The problem isn't so much with the rule, but with the OOB structure. Artillery formations don't usually get a leader directly attached. If there is a level between the battery and leader then no bonus can ever come down the chain.

Example:

From the Corinth.oob

D 3rd Div (Ross)
Begin
L 3 3 31 Brig Gen L.F. Ross
B 1st Brig (Leggett)
Begin
L 5 5 84 Col. M. Leggett
U 365 4 I R 26 22 18th Illinois
U 340 4 I R 71 22 78th Indiana
U 415 4 I R 11 22 20th Ohio
End
B 2nd Brig (Dennis)
Begin
L 3 3 33 Col. Elias Dennis
U 400 5 I R 26 22 20th Illinois
U 425 5 I R 26 22 30th Illinois
U 450 5 I R 26 22 48th Illinois
U 475 4 I R 26 22 45th Illinois
End
B 3rd Brig (Marsh)
Begin
L 3 3 34 Col. C.C. Marsh
U 390 4 I R 26 22 17th Illinois
U 465 4 I R 26 22 43rd Illinois
U 480 4 I R 26 22 49th Illinois
U 550 3 I R 26 22 61st Illinois
End
B 4th Brig (Haynie)
Begin
L 4 4 97 Col. Isham Haynie
U 350 4 I R 26 22 8th Illinois
U 490 3 I R 26 22 63rd Illinois
End
B 3rd Div(Unattached)
Begin
U 2 5 A h 62 10 A,14th Indep,Ohio Lt
U 2 5 A h 62 10 B,14th Indep,Ohio Lt
U 2 5 A i 62 10 C,14th Indep,Ohio Lt
U 265 5 C C 77 0 Co's A -F / 2nd Ill.
U 200 4 C C 77 0 4 Co's/11th Illinois
U 55 4 C C 77 0 4th Ohio (Indep Co)
U 35 4 C C 77 0 Co.H / 12th Illinois
U 140 2 C C 77 0 5 Co's/7th Tenn (US)
U 205 5 C C 77 0 Co's G -M / 2nd Ill.
U 150 2 C C 77 0 7 Co's/7th Tenn (US)
U 185 4 C C 77 0 Stewart's Ill. Bn
U 200 4 C C 77 0 4 Co's/ 4th Illinois
U 2 5 A L 31 1 A,9th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A L 31 1 B,9th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A H 28 22 C,9th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A G 69 14 (A),Btty B,2d Ill Lt
U 2 5 A G 69 14 (B),Btty B,2d Ill Lt
U 1 5 A G 69 14 (C),Btty B,2d Ill Lt
U 2 5 A T 62 10 A,14th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A T 62 10 B,14th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A T 62 10 C,14th Indep Ind. Lt
U 2 5 A U 27 10 (B),3d Indep,Ohio Lt
U 2 5 A L 31 1 (A),Btty E,2d Ill Lt
U 2 5 A H 28 22 (B),Btty E,2d Ill Lt
U 2 5 A J 28 22 (A),Btty D,1st Ill Lt
U 2 5 A J 28 22 (B),Btty D,1st Ill Lt
U 25 4 C C 77 0 Detached Company
End
S 300 60 Supply Train
End

All the troops in the 'B 3rd Div(Unattached)' level will never get a bonus since no leader is present at their level.

Granted the arty is rated a 5(B) which sounds good, but if you have a 4(C) infantry unit in a bde with a ldr present it will have a better chance of recovering because it will get a +2 bonus from the Div Ldr and the Bde Lde, assuming everyone is in command range.

Unfortunately, when an OOB gets altered scenarios have to be redone, and since the OOBs are locked so you guys (the designers) are the only ones who can correct this. Now if you would like some help, let me know I work cheap (free games). [;)]

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!

The fault with the rule is more apparant in its effects.

That rule makes it pretty much suicide to use artillery in anything resembling a historical manner. The effects of "D" are so extreme, so that the firepower is rendered almost null and void, *and* the fact that you can't even made a decent effort to evacuate the guns. Then, as Al said, it's a long, slow process to bring the guns back to good order. Because of all that artillery is used in almost an WW1 style, as distant support, instead of right up in the line like it should be.

Also, batteries often served as rally points for fleeing troops, and that's not likely in this game either.

Brig. General Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA

"Also, batteries often served as rally points for fleeing troops, and that's not likely in this game either."

Gary, I have to disagree a bit. Every routed unit I get heads straight for my guns. [:p] Of course once they disorder them they keep on runnin' hehehe....



MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!