American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

What is your opinion of the HPS weather feature, do most like it or not, and why?

It depends on the scenario. Some it can act as a randomizer to change how it plays giving the game some needed unpredictibility. Others it can so dominate the outcome that it becomes the determinator of who wins. Its inclusion as a result must be carefully considered as to whether it hurts or helps the game.

I have been using it in some test alternative scenarios in Gettysburg for another purpose. You can set weather parameters to limit LOS and get rid of the 70 hex default visibility.

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General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
AoT II/1/3 (CSA)

My experience with it is limited but bad. An attempt to use it slowed down the battle so much that it was difficult to have a battle. As a result, I avoid playing scenarios with the weather feature included. The main lesson from this is probably not that weather features are necessarily bad but if you like the weather features and you're going to introduce someone to it, then be careful which scenario that you select or you can turn them off forever.

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Gen Ned Simms
2/XVI Corps/AotT
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00

I have enough trouble just playing under sunny skies! But I do regard the weatherized scenarios as a whole, upper level of game play, something that I might eventually feel confident enough to explore.

Do you get free drinks for playing a weathrized scenario?

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General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)

I made the transition from Matrix (Talonsoft) to HPS mainly because of the weather feature and I do prefer weather scenarios over non-weather.

IMO the introduction of some type of variable visibility in these scenarios is a major step toward a more realistic fog of war and reduces the borg-spotting effect.

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Brigadier General Richard Simonitch
SIXTH BRIGADE (Artillery)
1st. Div. / V Corps
Army of the Potomac

I rarely use the weather feature and have only ever done so at the request of an opponent. It does add some very necessary unpredictability by removing the default 70 Hex visibilty, but those 12 MP's do not go far at all when bad weather effects mobility. Some scenarios seem to be slowed right down and become very frustrating to be stuck in, realistic but difficult to manage in a game ...becoming almost like a second enemy?

I like the lack of visibilty and hate the loss of mobility.

...and I think that looking for the weather feature to cure all problems arising from the default 70 Hex visibility may be mistaken as I don't think the two things are necessarily connected?

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Brigadier-General Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.

I started playing with the Weather scenario and though it added a level of realism. Lower visibility during fog,rain and reduced movement. When the weather cleared up all was well. The reduced movement on ground and the increase time to change formations all added to a better feel in my opinion. Roads became much more important, as they should be. I do agree that it requires a different skill level to manage it properly but once you get used to it I think you will like it. I am familiar with the Napoleonic games which have 15 minute and 10 minute scenarios which play havoc with the movement calculation more so than the weather therefore my transition to the weather was not as much of a shock.

I prefer using weather rules built into the game rather than house rules.

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Best Regards,

General Pierre D.

5th Bde, IV Cavalry Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
ACWGC President 1997 - 2006, 2012
ACWGC Forum Administrator

I play with either, I do find that weather does add a level of realism that I like. I would like the effect of black powder smoke to be represented on the map.

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General Cam McOmish

Brigade Commander
Alabama State Volunteers
Cleburne's Division
Hardee's Corps
(1/1/1)
Army of Tennessee
Confederate States of America

I would like to have the visibility feature of weather and the normal formation change movement points, I think that would make the game more intersting and a little more fun. I don't remember it taking us much longer to change formation in the rain.

I find the Weather rules can intoduce a difficult aspect: Often the change to required movement point costs can leave units with an "unusable" 2, 3 or even 4 MP's each turn, that would normally be expended on movement of one sort or another, but are now made insufficient under the new costs. These unused MP's are effectively "lost" each turn and can make gaming extremely frustrating ...everything can get very slow indeed.

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Brigadier-General Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.

The whole point of poor weather is to reduce movement. This results in points left. It is not wasted in m opinion. Is there not occasion that you cannot use up the points in good weather because you do not have enough left to perform the action.

It is normal that the movement and actions are reduced during poor weather. Mud slows you down. Rain slows you down if not to a crawl. Once the weather clears up it is full speed ahead. You just need to adjust your plans accordingly. What is very important to remember is that your opponent has to deal with the same movement restrictions. Be better than your opponent in dealing with this realistic effect.

Just an opinion.

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Best Regards,

General Pierre D.

5th Bde, IV Cavalry Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
ACWGC President 1997 - 2006, 2012
ACWGC Forum Administrator

Most of the Scenarios were designed to be playable for both sides , I hope that they were at least basically checked before release? All would have been designed then under the old school with the 70 Hex visibility and normal movement costs. Introducing the Weather rules after the event can, to me, just make another load of Scenarios unplayable as a game experience.

Yes, it is definitely realistic but then so would be sickness, morale and supply considerations for multi-day scenarios. When movement costs are so affected as to reduce you to 1 or 2 Hexes movement per turn and you find a unit has an unusable 4 MP's left over then these are for me "lost".

Often the design of a scenario is such that one side is the "defender" and the other the "attacker" with the difference in movement requirements that normally goes with it.
Repeatedly I see the changes to visibilty mentioned as a plus to the Weather rules introduction? I don't think that visibility (weather conditions) and visibilty (unit intelligence) have anything to do with each other?

I just pity the player who is trying to march through the mud & rain and win a scenario that was designed for dry ground & fair weather.

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Brigadier-General Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.

Actually you can use the weather rules to change visibility distance without changing weather effects. It allows you to set any time so that visibility distance changes and stays in effect until the next change. You can put in a random factor as well.

Most scenarios aren't balanced because they are historical. Almost none of the scenarios that are historical in Campaign Victsburg are balanced because Grant had already out maneuvered Pemberton before the battles began.

It takes extensive play testing to actually make a balanced scenario. One of the drawbacks of the Campaign format is there are so many scenarios that only key ones are play tested enough to do more than find errors. I have played many Campaigns where more than half of the scenarios were cake walks.

That said, still any change in scenarios parameters must be checked for balance. Weather in particular can unbalance a scenario. The example that comes to mind is Chancellorsville. I played it once with weather. The first scenario started with a light rain and mud. The CSA troops couldn't even march to the VP hex area before the game ended.

But limiting LOS is usually a safe change because it affects both sides equally. But there will still be some scenario situations where it can unbalance the game. But the main advantage of tinkering with things like LOS is that it can give new life to a much overplayed scenario like the historic Battle of Gettysburg.

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General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
AoT II/1/3 (CSA)

I have not played any other weather scenarios than the Gettysburg ones. The play balance can be affected by weather but I have not noticed this yet. The weather should be similar to the actual battle and VP and objective hexes should be taken into consideration.

On another subject VP hexes in my opinion are a guidelines for those that are not familiar with the actual historical battle. In the early days when I was not familiar with the battles I used the Objectives hexes as a reference to what the commanders at the time felt were important and focused on them counting on the designers to have that in mind. As I grew with the knowledge of the battles and history I eventually realized that the key to victory was the destruction of the enemy army, the objectives were important factors in the overall strategy but as the situation changed, geographical positions and advantages, the enemy Armies destruction was the major and primary important factor. The objectives often became irrelevant to the overall defeat of the enemy.

If the weather affects your ability to achieve the Objectives and VP points without the means to defeat your opponent than the problem is the VP's and objectives not the weather. Don''t discount the weather as a fun and interesting factor because of the objectives VP's . Work it our with you opponent if you can. Concentrate on destroying your opponents Army and you will not worry about objectives they become irrelevant after awhile.

If you defeat the enemy Army you have won regardless of the Objectives and their worth, however the scoring may not reflect this but most of the time it does. Just keep few small units to cover the VP hexes. Keeps marauding enemy units at bay.

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Best Regards,

General Pierre D.

5th Bde, IV Cavalry Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
ACWGC President 1997 - 2006, 2012
ACWGC Forum Administrator