Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Quick question. I have just started a battle vs a member of the French Army. However, I am playing as the French and he is commanding the Russians. With me a member of the Austrian Army and him in the French does this qualify as a battle or a maneuver? Thanks.

Hauptmann Dale Lastowicka
Lobkowitz Jager Bn
2nd Division
III Armee Korps
Austrian Army

Hauptmann Lastowicka,

You should register the game as a "maneuver".

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

I beg to differ, sort of:

From the rules it states:

Manoeuvres

Manoeuvres will involve play between Officers of the same or different camp. Points will be awarded at 1/2 the rate. This will allow for the NWC Officers to learn and know the enemy by playing opposing sides.


But then in the header it states:

You can start and play a sanctioned game, playing any side, however those for which you are not playing the side you joined are called MANOEUVERS and are calculated at 1/2 the regular points.

This is contradictory, and something I will bring before the Cabinet, as I always udnerstood it to be when you switched sides with a Frenchmen it was a regular game but if you played someone in your same side it was a maneuver....

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
(Old Windy) (Windbagfrankfurter) (The Mad Prussian)
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Kommandeur Garde-Grenadier-Korps & 3. Infanterie-Brigade
Königlich Preußische Armee am Niederrhein
Club Cabinet - Public Relations Officer

Vorwärts Meine Kinder, Vorwärts!! Glory and History Await You On This Day!!

This Day, Today, Marschall Vorwärts' Day!!

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - INWC[/url]</center>

Actually the rules is one of the things I am charged with now on the Cabinet and I am on the comittee to make the needed updates and cleanup, and to be honest, we need them...

I'll speak with the Cabinet on how to go forward with this.

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
(Old Windy) (Windbagfrankfurter) (The Mad Prussian)
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Kommandeur Garde-Grenadier-Korps & 3. Infanterie-Brigade
Königlich Preußische Armee am Niederrhein
Club Cabinet - Public Relations Officer

Vorwärts Meine Kinder, Vorwärts!! Glory and History Await You On This Day!!

This Day, Today, Marschall Vorwärts' Day!!

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - INWC[/url]</center>

Scott,

Though the wording may be unclear, the settled interpretation since the founding of the NWC has been that members may only get VPs and full administrative points when they are commanding the forces of the army that they "joined." The rule is rooted in a desire to foster allegiance to a particular army and steer the club away from simply being yet another "ladder" gaming club.

Clearly this, like any other NWC rule, can be revisited and either modified or simply deleted. That said, I would hesitate to tamper with it because it goes to the heart of what differentiates the NWC from other gaming societies.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

Gentlemen,

I have been keeping the Anglo-Allied Army records for quite sometime and during all that time switching sides has NOT been penalized. The question was discussed at some time and the conclusion was that Maneuver was limited to players being from the same side.

Please let me (and Geert) know if that procedure should be changed.

However, there are only so many scenarios and switching sides adds another dimension to an otherwise extremely limited gaming universe for the membership. How many times can one play NIR 07. Kutusov Turns to Fight? Therefore, I would strongly encourage a broader interpretation of the rule.






One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer,

Lieutenant-Colonel Jon Graswich
<font color="red">11th Light Dragoons
4th Cavalry Brigade
Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps
H.Q. Staff & Army Webmaster</font id="red">



<i>Treu und Fest</i>
<i>Staunch and Steadfast</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jon Graswich</i>
<br />Gentlemen,

I have been keeping the Anglo-Allied Army records for quite sometime and during all that time switching sides has NOT been penalized. The question was discussed at some time and the conclusion was that Maneuver was limited to players being from the same side.

Please let me (and Geert) know if that procedure should be changed.

However, there are only so many scenarios and switching sides adds another dimension to an otherwise extremely limited gaming universe for the membership. How many times can one play NIR 07. Kutusov Turns to Fight? Therefore, I would strongly encourage a broader interpretation of the rule.






One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer,

Lieutenant-Colonel Jon Graswich
<font color="red">11th Light Dragoons
4th Cavalry Brigade
Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps
H.Q. Staff & Army Webmaster</font id="red">



<i>Treu und Fest</i>
<i>Staunch and Steadfast</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The cabinet is looking at thsi topic...

we expect to have more by the end of the week

<center>
[img]</center>
<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Duc de Paive
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Jeune Garde
NWC President</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jon Graswich</i>
<br />Gentlemen,

I have been keeping the Anglo-Allied Army records for quite sometime and during all that time switching sides has NOT been penalized. The question was discussed at some time and the conclusion was that Maneuver was limited to players being from the same side.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Jon,

I can't speak to the practice in other armies, but throughout my tenure as commander of <i>l'Armee du Nord</i> (1999 - 2004) French officers could only receive "maneuver" points when they switched sides.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However, there are only so many scenarios and switching sides adds another dimension to an otherwise extremely limited gaming universe for the membership. How many times can one play NIR 07. Kutusov Turns to Fight? Therefore, I would strongly encourage a broader interpretation of the rule.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree that "switching sides" adds some needed variety to our gaming diet[:D], and have done it myself on numerous occasions. For instance, Sir Muddy and I recently joined forces to command the Allies in a Waterloo Campaign vs. Andy Moss and Jon Thayer. It was a wonderfully exciting game, we just never bothered to register it since half the players (Andy and I) were switching sides[:p]. I will leave it to the discretion of the Cabinet whether this rule should be changed, but I like the fact that we draw a distinction between gaming <i>per se</i> and entering the field of glory on behalf of our respective armies[8D].

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by paco</i>
<br />Scott,

Though the wording may be unclear, the settled interpretation since the founding of the NWC has been that members may only get VPs and full administrative points when they are commanding the forces of the army that they "joined." The rule is rooted in a desire to foster allegiance to a particular army and steer the club away from simply being yet another "ladder" gaming club.

Clearly this, like any other NWC rule, can be revisited and either modified or simply deleted. That said, I would hesitate to tamper with it because it goes to the heart of what differentiates the NWC from other gaming societies.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

What I stated is how games have been scored on the Allied side since I joined the club. Geert applies the points for all Allied members of the Club, and us webmasters just apply what he has to our websites.

Also if you apply your understanding if it, then we need to add in the 'sides' played for the game. As only army affiliation is present in the forms and not the actual side played in the battle.

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
(Old Windy) (Windbagfrankfurter) (The Mad Prussian)
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Kommandeur Garde-Grenadier-Korps & 3. Infanterie-Brigade
Königlich Preußische Armee am Niederrhein
Club Cabinet - Public Relations Officer

Vorwärts Meine Kinder, Vorwärts!! Glory and History Await You On This Day!!

This Day, Today, Marschall Vorwärts' Day!!

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - INWC[/url]</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SLudwig</i>

What I stated is how games have been scored on the Allied side since I joined the club. Geert applies the points for all Allied members of the Club, and us webmasters just apply what he has to our websites.

Also if you apply your understanding if it, then we need to add in the 'sides' played for the game. As only army affiliation is present in the forms and not the actual side played in the battle.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Scott,

How I applied the rule was that, first and foremost, my officers were instructed to register such games as a "maneuver" rather than a "fight." When Geert calculates the points, he simply relies on how the game is registered. Second, as Army CO I received a copy of the end game reports generated by Geert for my officers after he calculated the points. I would routinely scan them to make sure, <i>inter alia</i>, that this rule had been complied with. Obviously, if one of my officers was receiving full points for a fight in which he had commanded an "allied" army the fact would be apparent on the end game report.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by paco</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SLudwig</i>

What I stated is how games have been scored on the Allied side since I joined the club. Geert applies the points for all Allied members of the Club, and us webmasters just apply what he has to our websites.

Also if you apply your understanding if it, then we need to add in the 'sides' played for the game. As only army affiliation is present in the forms and not the actual side played in the battle.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Scott,

How I applied the rule was that, first and foremost, my officers were instructed to register such games as a "maneuver" rather than a "fight." When Geert calculates the points, he simply relies on how the game is registered. Second, as Army CO I received a copy of the end game reports generated by Geert for my officers after he calculated the points. I would routinely scan them to make sure, <i>inter alia</i>, that this rule had been complied with. Obviously, if one of my officers was receiving full points for a fight in which he had commanded an "allied" army the fact would be apparent on the end game report.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ok I see how it was done. [:)] If the rule is upheld, then the trainers on the Allied side need to inform new recruits of this, just so there are no mix ups.

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
(Old Windy) (Windbagfrankfurter) (The Mad Prussian)
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Kommandeur Garde-Grenadier-Korps & 3. Infanterie-Brigade
Königlich Preußische Armee am Niederrhein
Club Cabinet - Public Relations Officer

Vorwärts Meine Kinder, Vorwärts!! Glory and History Await You On This Day!!

This Day, Today, Marschall Vorwärts' Day!!

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - INWC[/url]</center>

Not to be argumentative, but I directly discussed with Geert more then a year ago the proper way to register such a game result and it was decided that if the OFFICERS were different then the game was NOT a Manovuer irregardless of the side played.

I think we need a Cabinet ruling on this.

I also will continue to lobby for a broad interpetation.

I do not believe that the NWC will ever become a "ladder" club. The greatest threat is that the age of the games (and the members [;)]) will cause the NWC to slowly fade away. Therefore, allowing members to not be penalized by taking a hand at the other side is to be encouraged as a way to maximize the gaming options.

I also strongly hope that the NWC can pick up some new members from the Matrix reissue of the Talonsoft games.

One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer,

Lieutenant-Colonel Jon Graswich
<font color="red">11th Light Dragoons
4th Cavalry Brigade
Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps
H.Q. Staff & Army Webmaster</font id="red">



<i>Treu und Fest</i>
<i>Staunch and Steadfast</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jon Graswich</i>
<br />Not to be argumentative, but I directly discussed with Geert more then a year ago the proper way to register such a game result and it was decided that if the OFFICERS were different then the game was NOT a Manovuer irregardless of the side played.

I think we need a Cabinet ruling on this.

I also will continue to lobby for a broad interpetation.

I do not believe that the NWC will ever become a "ladder" club. The greatest threat is that the age of the games (and the members [;)]) will cause the NWC to slowly fade away. Therefore, allowing members to not be penalized by taking a hand at the other side is to be encouraged as a way to maximize the gaming options.

I also strongly hope that the NWC can pick up some new members from the Matrix reissue of the Talonsoft games.

One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer,

Lieutenant-Colonel Jon Graswich
<font color="red">11th Light Dragoons
4th Cavalry Brigade
Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps
H.Q. Staff & Army Webmaster</font id="red">



<i>Treu und Fest</i>
<i>Staunch and Steadfast</i>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

A cabinet ruling is in the works... the devil is in the details :>


<center>
[img]</center>
<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Duc de Paive
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Jeune Garde
NWC President</center>