Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

The Rhine Tavern

*   NWC   NWC Staff   NWC Rules   NWC (DoR) Records   About Us   Send Email Inquiry to NWC

*   La Grande Armée Quartier Général    La Grande Armée Officer Records    Join La Grande Armée

*   Allied Coalition   Allied Officers   Join Coalition

*   Coalition Armies:   Austro-Prussian-Swedish Army   Anglo Allied Army (AAA)   Imperial Russian Army

 

Forums:    ACWGC    CCC     Home:    ACWGC    CCC
It is currently Wed May 07, 2025 10:18 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:01 am
Posts: 1411
Location: USA
I believe that in order to be march long distances consistently an army must be conditioned over time. The weaker men are eliminated and you are left with a remainder that can march great distances to battle and then fight. I believe the French were able to out march their opponents consistently from the 1796 Italian Campaignuntil the latter part of the 1812 campaign because of their system of training recruits on the march to join their units. March and then train becomes march and then fight. After 1812 the raw material simply became to poor for the system to compensate. The men were to young or used up from prior campaigns. Every country could force march troops when required at some cost; but I believe the French under Napoleon emphasized and focused on it. The Russians in 1812 demonstrated an ability to march as well as the French and I believe this was due to hardiness of their men, and the fact they were in their own country. The Austrians were notoriously slow marchers with gigantic supply trains. The English could march well but tended to not out march their supplies, except under certain circumstances such as the 1811 campaign in Portugal\Spain . All the above is a regurgitation of OPINIONS I have formed from reading various sources (sadly Englis only) which include Chandler, Oman, Nafziger and Rothenburg. I believe the Frecnh under Napoleon were consistently the best at long distance marches and I can think of at least two campaigns they won primarily on the strength of their legs, Ulm and Marengo. Kudos to Anton for his study of the subject. I do wish there were more translated sources available from the non-English speaking countries for us to read.

Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:50 am
Posts: 3
Location: Russia
Good evening, Gentlemen!
Maybe this information will be useful:

1806 Campaign (French):
On 9th October V Coprs (Lannes') made 44 km long march.

On 12th October VII Corps (Augerau's) made 37 km long march.

From 4 PM on 10 October to the evening of 12th October (48-50 hours, except night) VII Corps made nearly 100 km long march.

Source: Ñîêîëîâ ÃŽ.Â. "Àðìèÿ Ã


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:18 am
Posts: 6156
Yes and long range marching rates abound but what could the armies do on the average?

The campaign files could take this long range marching into account.

Otherwise on the map its hard to give more MPs to a unit. As they all use the same rate in the game.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:51 pm 
Here are a couple of documents covering the topic.

March Performances of Napoleonic Troops written in 1934 by George Eberle.

http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/showfil ... e=1016.pdf

and,

Marches: Franco-Prussian War, 1870-71 written in 1934 by Charles Ankcorn.

http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/showfil ... e=1013.pdf

al


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:32 am
Posts: 908
Location: Moscow, Russia
Thank you, Al!

Exactly what I was talking about. Eberle just took the locations of the troops in time which is "dependable". Then he calculated the distances between locations using a map. Result is overhelming - less than 20 km/day on the average. A bit faster in 1806 but the roads were in much better state.

Unfortunately it is not as detailed as we could expect. It uses several days long pieces instead of one day. Hence we miss some "effects". For example comparing the figures Kirill brought with those in Eberle we obtain that after 37 km long march Augerau corps made on 13th only 7 miles (10 kms). If they made within 3 days 100 kms (33 km/day) then within the other 5 days since Oct 7 to Oct 10 and Oct 13 they made 81-66=15 miles. I.e. 3 miles a day (4,5 km/day). If Lannes made 30 miles on Oct 9 then he made only 51 mile within the remaining 5 days since 8 to 13. Yielding 10 miles or 15 kms a day.

<center>Image</center>
<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Adjutant Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:18 am
Posts: 6156
Al - the link to Eberle's report never stopped loading in my browser.

Any idea on what is happening? Did they pull the article?

The book on the Prussians loaded fine.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:20 pm 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />Al - the link to Eberle's report never stopped loading in my browser.

Any idea on what is happening? Did they pull the article?

The book on the Prussians loaded fine.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)




<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

No idea. It comes from the Command and General Staff College Digital Library. You're no longer a Communist, right? hehehehe....


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:18 am
Posts: 6156
Al - I stopped being a Communist the day you quit beating your wife! [:p]

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
POWERED_BY
Localized by Maël Soucaze © 2010 phpBB.fr