Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

There is a campiagn scoring bonus for HPS Campaigns

Look in the club rules, section 5.2.4

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That's only for the Campaign front end. What about the long single game campaigns played in normal mode?

Also, doesn't that campaign bonus apply to OBD points? I thought we were discussing the award of Victory Points. Perhaps I am confused.

What is listed is not VP's.

As I pointed out to Andy: That isn't 16 VP's. The standard 2 still apply to the victor, the 1st place player only. It is a two formula scoring system. You combine the ranking in the game that you get with the game length modifier and you have the OBD Points that the players gets. Maximum is 32 OBD points & 2 VP's. The reason for the two part system is because there is no real defined number of turns in the game. It is based on a calendar system, not turns. So you choose a scenario and then you choose how many calendar months or years you want it to go for. One month = 1 turn, at least I think it is one month. If it is consider that 12 turns x 23 years = 276 turns. So in reality we are short changing them possibly.

The reason I did not go for more points, is these guys are very quick in their game turns and often demand a maximum of 48 hour turn around for all palyers due to the length of the game. We need to measure how fast they complete a game to know if the formula is correct or not in comparison to the other game systems.

The whole reason for the two formula system is because of the scenario length option, you can't define each scenario based on turns. Plus there is a 1st - 8th place ranking at the end of the game.

Does this make sense?

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Or another plausible answer is take the maximum possible years in the game and fold it into the ranking system and just have this.......

1st Place - 32pts
2nd Place - 30pts
3rd Place - 28pts
4th Place - 26pts
5th Place - 24pts
6th Place - 22pts
7th Place - 20pts
8th Place - 18pts

Problem is though if they play a 6 month game, then they get a boat load of points.....this is why I advocate a game length modifier....

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Yes, Scott, that does make sense now. I must have missed your explanation to Andy somewhere. The bonuses for OBD points are not really a big deal for me personally. As long as we keep the Victory Point System consistent for all games, we should be fine.

Andy probably still has a valid point about the Section 5.2.4 OBD Campaign Scoring Bonus for HPS Campaigns versus no bonus for the the Large Map Campaigns. Even so, I doubt he will really care about gaining a 7 OBD Bonus for a 500 turn Large Map Campaigns. At his rate of play, Andy will go through 7 OBD points in no time.

As for me, I personally prefer the Large Map Campaigns to the HPS Campaign scenarios. Give me the map, the army and let me see what I can do against an opponent having the same flexibility. The Large Map Campaigns are as close as we come to really commanding the army in the field as there are so many more decisions to be made and so many more tactical aspects to master.

Thanks for the clarification, Scott. I was indeed confused; my normal mode of operation.

To clarify I had replied to Andy via email. Maybe after the dust settles from all this the Cabinet will consider a large map game....

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Oh, Scott, you sneaky devil of politcal intrigue. A carefully concealed note passed behind the scenes has oft changed the course of a war!

Haha indeed! Also having a notification from the forum on a possible public relations issue helps too....

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Hi everyone. For consideration regarding the point system for COG, please note that a COG campaign really takes ages to finish.

The time needed for completion is also extremely (if not mostly) dependant on the number of players, for each person's life commitments, time zone etc... increase the turn around pace. For example:

- I am in a one on one game right now and we should have finished in about 6 months total real time.
- 4 players completed a 15 years campaign (180 turns) in about 8 months, but we were going at a very fast pace. About 1 turn every 30 hours. Fast.
- 8 players gave up a game after 150 turns or so. And it took us close to a year to get there.
- 8 players are currently at turn 185, and we have played for a year so far.

regards,
Christophe

This is why trying to strike a happy balance is so hard. We want to reward fairly & for all the efforts that go into it, but also do not want to let people abuse the system either. (Not the current group of CoG players btw).

Also trying to strike a balance with the rank points as well as what is fair to the other gamers using other systems....

So should we increase the poinst for the longer CoG games in the formula? Not sure what the answer is.

It tooks us a month or two at the iNWC, going back and forth before we reached an agreement.

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

No, I do not think that Scott meant REAL time. I think he meant GAME time.

Thus whether it takes you a YEAR of real time to complete a campaign or six months is not the issue.

We have a size modifier in the M&CGC. Basically those playing a large battle (over 30k men on largest side) of 20 turns get slightly more points than those playing a small battle (under 10k on largest side) of the same length. In other words the Battle of Waterloo aught to be worth more points than say the action at Hougomont.

A length modifier does not interest me much ... how long you play is already reflected in the points you receive.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

True Bill. My concern is that if these guys play 185 turns in a year and a half and only get a maximum of 32 OBD points than it doesn't equate fairly to an HPS game that plays the same amount of turns & time. Because the CoG game is calendar driven in its length of play, it makes it tricky to make the scoring fair without abuse of the system.

Thus I am inclined to increase the 11 to 15 Years & 20 to 23 Years points that are awarded, but still keep the lower end the same. This way it doesn't abuse the system, but also makes it equate properly with HPS turns.

So say this:

11 to 15 Years - 34pts

20 to 23 Years - 54pts

So combined with a 1st Place Ranking at the end of the game. You will have at most, in a 20 to 23 Year (game setting) game 70 points and 2 VP's.

Of course another way to do it, is to equate the actual years to turns.

So 1 turn is 1 month, 12 turns in a year x 23 years = 276 turns.

Not sure what is the best answer. Might want to equate it turn for turn like the rest of the games....

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

The whole scoring that I devised I lifted from parts of the iNWC scoring for it. We might do something as simple as turn for turn, like this:

Now follow the formula - 1 turn is 1 game month, 12 game months in a game year = total turns played

Instead of a year length range, it becomes year to year.

6 game months = 6 turns
1 game Year (12 game months) = 12 turns
18 game months = 18 turns
2 game Years (24 game months) = 24 turns
2 game Years, 6 months (30 game months) = 30 turns
3 game Years (36 game months) = 36 turns
4 game Years (48 game months) = 48 turns
5 game Years (60 game months) = 60 turns
6 game Years (72 game months) = 72 turns
7 game Years (84 game months) = 84 turns
8 game Years (96 game months) = 96 turns
10 game Years (120 game months) = 120 turns
11 game Years (132 game months) = 132 turns
12 game Years (144 game months) = 144 turns
13 game Years (156 game months) = 156 turns
14 game Years (168 game months) = 168 turns
15 game Years (180 game months) = 180 turns
20 game Years (240 game months) = 240 turns
23 game Years (276 game months) = 276 turns

This might be the easiest and most fair too....

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Actually it ends up being much simpler....

A file is issued for every turn that is played. On that file is the turn number. So within that is your answer for how many turns are played. It gives a precise turn number.

So whatever turn the file is on when the people end the game is the turn that gets plugged into the autosystem. It even allows management to verify if there are issues....

Problem solved....just need to figure out how to equated the 1st - 8th palce in terms of victory levels.

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Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support