Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

The slider bar...... .......I had forgotten there even was a slider bar! I am going to have to start checking the setup turns from my opponents a little closer from now on (or maybe they are going to have to start checking mine ). Thanks, Al!

Ah yes, Generaal Moss, my beloved mentor in these games. I could not begin to say enough good things about him. He has certainly grown to be a dear friend of mine since the time he allowed this errant waif of an officer into his fine Military Academy. I remember his training well. How he would gently place his arm around me, whispering his wise instructions of combat into my ear, only to suddenly pound my face down onto the table, breaking my nose and causing me to collapse to the floor in pain. I must say that he was always there, extending his strong arm to help lift me back upon my feet, handing me a towel to wipe away the blood and gently promising to teach me how to avoid letting that sort of thing ever happen again. You see, there was a sagelike wisdom in his methods, for he knew a secret that I had overlooked. Broken noses soon heal.

Andy, thank you for the lessons. I personally think you are the very best trainer in this club and I am proud to continue to be your student! As you well know, I would proudly go to battle by your side any day. <Salute>

P.S. Please send Prussians as soon as possible. This Bardon chap seems to have me firmly by the nose while he is kicking me in the ........

Will move my little Prussians today. Another weekend of partying here.

The slider bar. Well actually you can't see it if your opponent set up the game. I think it's something Clifton has referred to in the past. So it could be used as a cheat. Although there is no rule, I would expect it to remain at 0 for all PBEM games.

ANY adjustment of the slider bar is noticeable in the game. The fire of the enemy becomes much more prominent. Just ONE tick on the scale makes a huge difference in play.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

Thanks, Bill, that was going to be my next question (i.e. How do you know if the slider bar has been adjusted off zero if you cannot see it?). I do not think there would necessarily have to be a rule that the slider bar is always set to zero for PBEM games, but there certainly should be a rule that it cannot be moved without the express, written (to ward off future disputes) agreement of the player so disadvantaged. Personally, I would prefer that the settings be made visible during play, like the optional rules settings, or eliminated altogether in PBEM play. This seems to be a dangerous loop hole in the game that lends itself to abuse, could be extremely contentious and may be nearly impossible to conclusively prove.

I have never used the slider bar, even while playing the AI before I discovered all of you fine fellows at the NWC. I want an opponent, AI or live, to demonstrate superior play. I would not want to lose, or even play at all for that matter, when my opponent or the AI simply slaughtered my men at 10x the going rate because the slider bar had been adjusted. No mental challenge there as far as I am concerned and not my defintion of play balancing.

How many players out there ever used the slider bar at all to balance thier play, even against the AI?

My feelings on this is if a player uses that bar it out and out cheating he can make his own men fire at a greater effect Attack with greater results why not move it all the up. I see now how some players play by any means to win the bar is for AI play so that the AI is not so dumb! That my penny for today!

I fully agree, Cliff. To use the slider bar without the full knowledge and consent of your opponent is cheating, no doubt about it. I would expect any officer caught doing so would be immediately discharged from the club. I believe we do have rules against this type of play. I think every officer in this club is in agreement on this point.

I personally do not like the slider bar at all, even for AI play. If it made the AI play more intelligently, I would fully support it, but it does not. It only changes the die roll odds. I never found that to be useful. It is just not possible to program an AI to perform well against a competent, human opponent. The slider bar is a poor "fix" to that dilemma. That is exactly why we have this club and precisely why I love it so much. There is a challenge for everyone in the NWC, regardless of your level of ability. It also provides social contact and allows for role play. A magnificent combination of all things in my mind.

Alright, it the slider bar option is off the table, then modify your copy of the oob or pdt files. That should do the trick!

Any a-temp to change the moral or raise it higher then what it was is cheating. I think and it will bear true that Scott Bowden moral level for the wars was on par. The Prussi in 1806 were good but not as good as the French. I would say that they were at best Vet line with Gren were as the French were Crack Line with Gren and Old Guard our game would be Prussi C for line and A for Gren, French B for line and name units A and A+ for Guard. Now 1815 E and D yes for the Prussi but higher then C is questionable. 1815 French C and B for line and A+for guard what the game has is great.

I have some thoughts about how the 1815 campaign historical large scenario could be changed to prevent the usual French turkey shoot.

It's currently not balanced and also not very historical. The French can charge up the pike towards Brussells via QB ignoring their open communications to some degree and therefore the Prussians. This result is an allied scramble to mass their forces and therefore the French army fighting as a single all powerful force on day2 against a weaker allied force.

Napoleon had to deal with the Prussians first in 1815 to secure the right flank of his communications. This had a fundamental effect on operations and allowed the time for the Duke to assemble his poorly deployed forces.

This would not be that hard to simulate in the scenario with a few changes I have thought of.

Problem is I have limited time and very little knowledge of the editor. Is there anyone interested in implementing a short set of changes including such things as new vp hexes and the removal of the northern exit hexes and their replacement with vp hexes? Also some adjustments to allied troop deployments and quality ratings. As well as the overall victory conditions.

Let me know if you know how to do this and I can send you the brief. Then we can release it to the club. I notice this scenario is hugely popular it's a great shame it's not historical at the moment. Well at least does not have a historical play style.

Couple of key things are:
1. The Prussian army of 1815 is much better than given credit for. In particular it's leadership. In my view by 1815 the Prussian staff were probably the best in Europe. Napoleon without Berthier was like Bill Gates without a PC. Indeed Napoleon struggled to understand why his orders did not seem to flow out properly. Soult was a fine leader but no Berthier who was the interpretor of N's genius

2. The lack of VP hexes along the line of French march (that they must capture and defend) means they don't have to worry about their communications. Blucher threatened these on 15 June hence the Ligny battle.

Any takers?

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Marechal Knox

Prince d'Austerlitz et Comte d'Argentan
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur

"What is history but a fable agreed upon"

Sire I have played the Allied side many times and each time beat the French. I have surround them at CHARLEROI and had my Prussi in their rear. I say that it depends on who you are and who you are playing not the game like the old saying the trouble is not in the Land but in the man!

I started typing a proper response, but my computer keeps screwing up (OK, it is possible that it is the operator that keeps screwing up) and I lost everything I had said. To make, what was my long story, short, I agree with Colin that this scenario should be a French romp. The French have the ability to advance the timetable of their march by a full day while the Allies are constrained by historical unit arrivals on the map. Destroying the bridges helps the Allied cause to a minor extent, but is not sufficient to redress and balance the relative timetable. I love this particular scenario and would fully support a modification to historically balance it.

Unfortunately, Colin, I cannot make those changes as I am not a game designer, but I certainly do support your cause in every point you made.

Oh, Cliff, I missed your post. You and I are online at the same time. Hopefully this one will not cross yours again.

I do agree with you that the caliber of the players can make all the difference between victory and defeat. The term I know is a quote by Chuck Yeager referring to fighter aircraft when he said, "It's the man, not the machine." To an extent this is true, but I certainly would not like to challenge a F-22 Raptor while flying a Brewster Buffalo.

The measure of a balanced scenario is what would happen if all players were equal in ability.

Cliff perhaps General Moss would like to post or others. I have played this as French a number of times the last time vs Lucky Jim Hall (a famous British FM) we mutually agreed it was pointless. Let me assure you he is a fine player.

I have analysed the scenario in depth for both sides and had manuevers with French friends where we have debated it. Given equal players it favours the French I feel.

Allied players now is your chance to agree I only promote your cause as I love this campaign and want to play it as a near run thing!! Speak now sirs.

Sir Muddy what do you think? Perhaps you would be interested in making my mods?

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Marechal Knox

Prince d'Austerlitz et Comte d'Argentan
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur

"What is history but a fable agreed upon"

Al, I also meant to address your most recent comment. I did accidentally learn of that method as well in a discussion with Bill Peters some time back. I have no idea how to modify those files, but knowing that it could be done honestly scares me. Loopholes like the hidden slider bar and file modifications need to be closed to prevent their abuse. Again, I am not a game designer, so I would have to defer to others in this regard. Since these flaws have been identified, I am certain that the game designers would have tried to close them in the past. It may be very hard, or even impossible, to do. I cannot judge in this regard, but so long as these loopholes exist, the integrity of your opponent remains paramount.

My real problem lies in the fact that, whereas I might suspect an opponent has used one of these methods to gain an unfair advantage, I would have no idea how to conclusively prove it. The only recourse I could see is to suffer the inevitable defeat and then forever avoid playing that same officer in the future.

Sir Muddy, I would like to entice you as much as possible to consider Colin's offer. In addition to the hoof balm my Hanoverians have provided, should you decide to undertake this endeavor, we will scour the countryside for the finest apple groves and farriers of high renown to pamper your fine steed. We will further agree to take out a substantial life insurance policy on your behalf should you decide to continue riding this magnificent, but somewhat headstrong, equine into battle.

Yes. I agree it's a French romp, assuming players are of equal ability. The allies are hamstrung by reinforcements arriving way too late, and having to defend exit hexes. Not to mention crappy quality troops.

I'd certainly remove the exit hexes. Yes ok the argument is the French are headed to Brussels, but on a bigger map I'd simply find alternative routes. Or stick an exit hex on the French side and see how they like the Prussians marching on Paris.

Tweaking the scenario is pretty straightforward. I'm on leave in a fortnight so could do it then. The big problem though is the speed the game plays at: ten minute turns may slow things down. Or perhaps just a slower pace to reflect lack of intel and slow communications.