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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Posts: 1203
Location: Charlotte NC
Colin Knox wrote:
I reviewed the round 1 game for Mark and concur it was balanced.
I believe Mark is doing a great job on this tournament an often thank less task.
As for lots of French players losing well I am not sure that means anything.


We had a discussion in the French Tavern about it, and I said that the scenario was favoring the British.
I still think it, it doesn't mean that my opponent didn't win fairly, au contraire, he did an excellent job while I did a bad one (rushing a little bit and expecting to see the English rout when they didn't, not mentioning my biggest mistake where I lost a few artillery batteries from a lateral charge).

If we wanted to have a tournament with equal chances we would need to play with armies of the same size, same quality, same terrain, etc... But it would be a different kind of tournament.

Anyway I am now engaged in the looser bracket :mrgreen: an other encounter scenario... I will be more careful this time! :wink:

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Général David Guegan

3ème Régiment de Grenadiers - Bataillon d'élite du 3ème Légère
2ème Brigade
Grenadiers de la Réserve
Réserve
La Grande Armée
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"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step."
Napoléon Bonaparte

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:33 pm 
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I have no idea if Round 1 had a balanced scenario since I spent most of the scenario trying to find where the French were hiding.

I guess what I must say Mark is that my only beef with the scenario is that Rich Hamilton did not equip the Allies with flashlights. I had to hunt down Cliff's troops in the brush and deep in the back of a cave on that large hill near the western map edge. Finally found him cowering in fear of our Allied legions and dragged his butt out and made him stand at attention and salute our Allied officers.

We then had a short (but futile) arm wrestling contest. Our Allied sergeant beat his French sergeant and we all had lemonade after the battle. The Allies all cheered.

(and note: I did not even commit all of my troops - so much for unbalanced - it was called superior tactical methods that won the day)

I know that in the next round that my partner, "Lucky Jim" Hall and I will not have to hunt down our opponents as they hail from the Russian army which means that they come out and fight like men and not cave rats. :wink:

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:15 pm 
SLudwig wrote:
SON 1 site should be updated before Saturday night, I hope. SON 2 should be loaded up by Monday morning after I reengineer it. I have been extremely busy the past month, but have been trying to follow things as time allows.


Thanks, Scott. Very much appreciated! I have honestly been worrying a bit about you lately, but you know how I am. I like to see you in here cracking jokes. If you are not doing that, I miss you and think that you may have become overcommitted somewhere else with all of the associated stress that is never good for any of us. :( :( :(

Just as a clerical point for everyone though, the current tournament is officially the 2011 SON Tournament. It has been referred to as SON1. The abbreviation SON2 actually applies to the 2012 SON Tournament that I intend to kick off this summer based on the new Leipzig title. This particular post was started as an advance notification to the membership that officers wishing to participate needed to start planning to secure the new game and practicing with the game engine as they saw fit. :) :) :)

And as we previously discussed, if you will tell me what I need to change in my work, I can provide you with better websites that will not require any reengineering. I am a Webmaster Intern. Think of me as a sponge and feel free to liberally apply your knowlege. Getting me fully up to speed will cost you a bit of effort on the front end, but I guarantee I will help ease your burden in the long run. :wink: :P :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:40 pm 
davidguegan wrote:
We had a discussion in the French Tavern about it, and I said that the scenario was favoring the British. I still think it, it doesn't mean that my opponent didn't win fairly, au contraire, he did an excellent job while I did a bad one (rushing a little bit and expecting to see the English rout when they didn't, not mentioning my biggest mistake where I lost a few artillery batteries from a lateral charge).

If we wanted to have a tournament with equal chances we would need to play with armies of the same size, same quality, same terrain, etc... But it would be a different kind of tournament.

Anyway I am now engaged in the looser bracket :mrgreen: an other encounter scenario... I will be more careful this time! :wink:


Man, your opponent must have really been something! :shock: :wink: :mrgreen:

No, seriously guys, the scenario was slightly, and I do mean slightly, balanced in favor of the French. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wow, you can hear a pin drop in here. Where did everyone go? :shock: :shock: :shock:

The numerical strengths of both sides were almost identical, but the French had a 2:1 advantage in cavalry, a slight advantage in artillery, and had to amass 250 fewer victory points to achieve a Major Victory than their Anglo-Allied counterparts. The British cavalry had no horse batteries accompanying it whereas, the French cavalry vanguard had two. The British did have a number of Guard infantry, but this was offset by the large number of E Morale conscripts following to the rear. The French units were of consistently good quality. This scenario was in no way balanced in favor of the Anglo-Allied forces. This is what I concluded in my initial study, but I also passed it along to Colin Knox to obtain his independent opinion. His comments came back that the scenario was pretty well balanced, but that the Anglo-Allied forces needed a bit more cavalry added to the scenario to make it fair. I did not add anything. The scenario was played in the tournament with this 'deficiency'. :? :? :?

Ask Jeff Bardon, who also played the French, if the scenario was balanced against him. He readily defeated my illustrious Army Commander, Marco Bijl, who is a supreme warrior in his own right. Marco was quick to tell me afterwards that the scenario was grossly unbalanced in favor of the French. :oops: :oops: :oops:

The morale of this story is very simple. It is enduring proof that Victory, or Defeat, colors the perspective of the participant. The very fact that I am hearing every single defeated officer say that the scenario was unbalanced against him confirms to me that the scenario was probably well balanced from the very beginning. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Now having said that, the multi-player scenario for the Round 2 Winner's Bracket is composed of two armies that are almost identical in every regard of strength, morale, composition, and leadership. Who wants to take bets that when those fights are concluded, there will be the same discussion of an unbalanced scenario as we are witnessing here in this post. Any takers? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:22 pm 
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the issue for me was that the superior French force was balanced by the fact that the Brits had the quicker path to the good ground, forcing the French to attack and allowing for the British reverse slope tactics - had both armies simply met in an open field, the French would definitely have a strong advantage

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:41 pm 
Ah, but you see, that was the beauty of this scenario. It was a meeting engagement with a longer time frame than necessary for a straight up fight and a large map for maneuver. The British could get to some good ground first if the British player immediately recognized the good ground and made a perfect movement for it. The French player, on the other hand, had ample time to maneuver the British player out of any position he selected. The key was patience and a methodical approach. :P :P :P

In our battle, to David's good credit, he did not hurl his cavalry at me on first contact. He waited for his infantry to come up, but in truth, he never really attempted to outmaneuver my position until after the battle had already been essentially decided through frontal assault. From the evidence I viewed in the end game files, I suspect many of the French players hurled their cavalry headlong into the British Guard, confident that they would easily override them, without waiting for their infantry support to arrive. Once the French horsemen were halted, the British Guard deployed into line and utterly decimated the ranks of disordered horsemen at a great profit in Victory Points. Again, this is supposition on my part. I would be interested to hear how the French officers actually handled the initial cavalry contact in their matches. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Now please realize that I am not picking on anyone here. This is an open discussion of tactics for all officers in the club. These are the types of exchanges that can be used to improve one's play if you maintain and open mind and a willingness to learn. If you want to see a brutal learning curve, I can send you the BTE files from my game with Colin. :shock: :shock: :oops:

If the reason you lost is because the scenario was unbalanced, or your opponent was gamey, or a solar flair disrupted your brain waves at an inoportune moment, then you are not likely to learn and improve. I have lost only two battles so far in my NWC career. The first was against Colin Knox and the reason was because he was the far superior officer. He beat the crap out of me because he was better. By the end of the battle, I was also better, but by that time I could not even see him to hit him because of the copious flow of blood covering my eyes. He won because he deserved to win. Period. When the battle was over, I publically, albeit defiently, surrendered my sword to him in the Rhine Tavern. It was the least I could do as honorable tribute to so fine a gentlemen officer. :P :P :P

My second loss was to Chuck Jenson. I played a nearly perfect game against him until I confused my rules between the HPS and BG series. I was playing masterfully, right up until the point that I made a fatal mistake on a monumental scale. Chuck defeated me because he did not make a mistake. Now I would say that Chuck and I were pretty evenly matched. It was a wonderful contest until I got utterly stupid. Chuck did not make a mistake, I did, and he rightfully earned a Major Victory as a result. 8) 8) 8)

The very first step in improving your play is to own your weaknesses, and constantly strive with the firmest resolve to overcome them. That is the only path to substantially improving your play. :wink: :wink: :wink:

That is exactly what I hope that the senior officers in the SON Tournament can instill in their junior companions. James Bell has inherited me for the remainder of our tournament. God bless him. I hope he makes it through to the other side. Now I cannot say what the rest of you senior officers are going to do, but I will do everything in my power to make him the better player by the end of our run in this tournament, and I will become a better person just by getting to know him. Whatever happens, win or lose, James and I are going to have fun. I sincerely hope the rest of you do as well. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:16 am 
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Location: Republic of Galveston Texas USA
Mon ami I love it when everyone comes together and hash things out that's what the Son1 was about not the battle but the fight after. Bon job mon President we need more Tournaments were we actually talk to one another! :P :P :D . So let's get it on moi opponent and I have agreed to the rules and it will be a balance
Rules : surrounding cavalry with infantry never be allowed.
A. Only if they are adjacent to cavalry and the cavalry is routed
B. Infantry should stop within three hexes from cavalry when advancing
C. the majority player if he loses 30% of his combat force he most leave the field counting only Cav and Inf
D. One with the smaller force if he loses 40% he most gives quarter. counting only Cav and Inf
E. If at any time the Leader of any Army is killed game over Major victory
F. Major victory only
G. There should be no advancing on Art most also stop five hex’s in front can advance on rear and flanks
H. Cav can’t at any time fight in woods or villages or towns .
I. Cav can charge from a clear hex into woods or towns but most stop an not tack a breakthrough


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:42 am 
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Posts: 6156
I did look over the "OB" for this battle and noted the same things you did, Mark.

Those extra cavalry were pretty amazing. And the map is VERY open. This is not the usual Belgian landscape that the horsemen in the club have come to know and hate.

Maybe if you guys would attach those razor teeth on the front of your horses like the Shermans in Normandy ... :wink:

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:55 am 
BTW, the tagline under my signature that reads, "Once you are in a fight, it is way to late too wonder whether this was a good idea", is a direct result of my Austerlitz battle with Colin. A constant reminder for me to tighten my boot straps and learn everything I can from a bad situation when I stumble into one. Colin gained yet another Major Victory from the engagement, but I was the real winner as I learned an awful lot about how to improve my game. :wink: :wink: :wink:

I recommend a game with Colin to every Coalition officer in this club, but you better have a strong constitution, and a very large bottle of Jack Daniels at hand every time you watch one of his Battle Replays. I would suggest that you down half of the bottle before you hit the "Yes" button. It seems to hurt a bit less that way. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Jeff Bardon has a similar effect; Paco as well from what I hear, and others that I have not seen active since I have been in this club. :P :P :P

A toast to the most talented and respected officers of the Vielle Garde! Formidible adversaries all, but that shall never dissuade the Coalition Guardsmen from continually striving to properly place them in an appropriate iron cage. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

To all officers of the NWC! Learn, grow and always remember to conduct yourselves with honor, making new friends along the way. I love you guys. I love this club. I really, really do. Cheers, Gentlemen! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Yes, there are some really good players in the French army, some of whom you left out like Jeff Mathes or Pierre D.

Tomasz is good in ANY game system he plays.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:54 pm 
Bill Peters wrote:
Yes, there are some really good players in the French army, some of whom you left out like Jeff Mathes or Pierre D.

Tomasz is good in ANY game system he plays.


Yes, you see Bill, that is your advantage for being old......uh, I mean.......experienced and wise far beyond your youthful years and dashing good looks! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Posts: 6156
Yeah, yeah, its not an election year .... :mrgreen:

You just wait! I will vote for Hillary to be our next club President! :D :D :D

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:42 pm 
What scenario was played in round one?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:58 pm 
059.Hypo_v10.scn


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:49 pm 
Okay, thanks.


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