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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Bravo a draw in 1813 is as good as a win play that big game and get some points !


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:24 pm 
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My garcons are hungry for some Brunswick blood :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:19 pm 
clifton seeney wrote:
Bravo a draw in 1813 is as good as a win....


Is this to say that you believe HPS Leipzig favors the Coalition? :shock: :shock: :shock:

I have to admit that I have not studied all of the scenarios, but from what I have seen, I certainly would not agree with that assessment. Are you basing your opinion on a detailed analysis of the game, or on a generalized concept of the actual history of the Napoleonic Wars? :| :| :|


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:26 pm 
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a generalized concept of the actual history ! An since there were no Brit's there oui :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:37 pm 
The Brunswick courier ducked through the opening in the tent of his pro-tem Commanding Officer.

"Excuse me, sir", he said as he snapped to a smart salute, "I have news from the Dennewitz front, sir."

The Staff Officer of the Anglo-Allied Army paused in his writing and looked over the top of his reading glasses at the black clad courier as he returned the proffered salute. "What news, Corporal", asked his commander.

"Sir, Colonel Ejder reports that he and Captain Quatar have managed to thwart the French advance", replied the courier.

"Excellent", said the Brigadier as he removed his spectacles and placed them on the table before him.

"Here are the casualty reports, sir", said the courier as he handed his commander a handwritten message from Colonel Ejder.

Replacing his spectacles, the Hanoverian Brigadier unfolded the parchment and began to read its contents. "Hmmm", he said as the large casualty figures began to register in his mind. "It looks as though the casualties were rather significant. Please convey my deepset regrets for the losses incurred, and my compliments for the bravery required to sustain them. A tactical stalemate at best, but as the French are withdrawing, a victory it shall be called. That will be all, Corporal. Dismissed."

"Yes, sir", said the courier as he snapped another salute before turning to leave, "I will convey your message as ordered, sir."


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:39 pm 
clifton seeney wrote:
a generalized concept of the actual history ! An since there were no Brit's there oui :lol:


Meaning......that if the Brits were there, the advantage would have been held by the French? :? :? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I must agree with Mark. In 1813 and especially in 1814, the scenarios for the majority, favor the French. I'm not complaining just making an observation of scenarios I've fought thus far from both the 1813 & 1814 titles. I've played mostly historical scenario from Leipzig as the Coalition and more times than not I am getting my a&* kicked quite often. This, of course, could be because I'm still only a mediocre player, but advantage: France. I think it's time for me to try alternate scenarios. :shock:

Regards.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:05 pm 
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When you out number a Army by 20,196 your side should have won. Let get real Monsieur your Prusse lost .


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Cliff,

Be specific and clarify what you're speaking of. Is this historically speaking? or from one of the Leipzig scenarios?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Leipzig scenarios if they played the HPH games #60? Gary you should team up with Mark and I thank that would improve your game. And if you do you know am always up for a long game.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:50 pm 
Hi Gary,

In the Military History and Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars, a book published originally I believe for West Point (certainly by two officers connected with the academy), the forces available for use by the Army of Berlin (French) were some 60,000+, vs the Army of the North (Allies) were some 110,000 plus.

These are the strengths at the beginning of the campaign, when Oudinot was in command, and before the first battle, of Grossbeeren..

It is reported that Napoleon, upon replacing Oudinot with Ney, planned to increase the Army of Berlin to a strength of 80,000. However, the 25,000 men intended as the reinforcement never joined the army, as Napoleon decided to make use of them elsewhere, at the last minute.

This leaves the French strength at some 55,000, while the Army of the North stayed at roughly the same level.

In the game played here, it was #60 Dennewitz , which is an alternative scenario. The major difference here from the historical version is that the French forces begin more concentrated as opposed to strung out, which allowed them historically to be defeated in detail.

In this scenario, the overall strength of the French side is some 57,612.
The overall Allied strength is some 80,162.

However, there are other factors involved in the game, primarily that the Swedish part of the army arrive late in the game, and cannot exert direct influence upon the final moments of the battle (they arrive late, and have a long way to march), this removes some 27,000 men from the Allied overall strength.

This would leave a slight advantage for the French of some several thousands.

But, it is still not as simple as all that.
For example, the French could act very much in an offensive manner, and therefore find themselves deeper into enemy territory, which means closer to the Swedish forces when they arrive, and who would then likely play a more substantial role in the unfolding battle.

Our strategy as the French in this battle was to ensure we did not allow this to happen, at least not easily so.

I have found both Dennewitz and Grossbeeren to be incredibly complex battles.
They are very much meeting engagements, that allow each side to direct as they will the emphasis of their attacks. To determine whether they will assign the weight of their strength to one flank or the other, which in turn is dependent upon what the opponent has done.

Adding an integral factor for both sides are the schedules for reinforcements.

I can recommend both of these battles for French and Allied officers to play if you wish to have an excellent experience learning the vital details of command and control.

The opposing strengths available to each side vary throughout the course of the scenarios, presenting some opportunities here and there, but never long to last.

Regards,


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:07 pm 
Well said, Todd. I was typing a post to the same relative effect. These battles are very complex. Victory depends on numerous factors. It is not nearly so simple as a direct comparison of numbers. For example, to use Cliff's numbers:

French Army- 100,000, A++ Morale Old Guard who are concentrated and free to maneuver.

Prussian Army - 120,196, E Morale Conscripts who are scattered and Fixed for the entire battle.

The Prussians should win by your logic, Cliff. I guarantee you that the Prussians will never win in this situation.

This is why we have Victory Conditions. It makes the victory relative to the situation.

A Military Atlas and History of the Napoleonic Wars.....ah, one of my very favorite books. Chandler's is another. Napoleon Against Russia ..... so many books, so little time. I used to have time to read... :( :( :(


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Monsieur am playing that same game what you said is far off the mark the Prusse arrive in force on turn 16 the French are still in the woods the only thing holding their front is Light Cav. Please mon ami give facts. My sword needs some Royal Hanover blood on it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Todd & Mark,

Another title, I need to acquire in the near future.
:wink: :wink: by the way, I am mesmerized by Chander's book.
Thanks for the in depth analysis of the Grossbeeren and Dennewitz situation. Here is my current situation.

I'm playing 006 HTH Historical battle of Grossbeeren, 60 turns.
We're (Tim Cavallin-playing the French) are 19 turns in of 60. I, as the Prussians and Coalition, held the town of Blankenfelde for about 16 turns until Tim's reinforcements eventually drove me out of town. The issue that has arisen is that its about 1300 and all my units don't release until at least 1340, then the Russians @ 1530 and finally the Swedes @1930.
So, my small band Of Prussians are routed running from the French and no support anytime soon, well for 40 minutes or so. Tough one right now for the Coalition, but I have confidence the Allies will prevail!!!

Regards.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:44 pm 
Gary - Tim is a veteran player. Don't let the shiny new Sous-Lt. uniform fool you.

Cliff - I was just giving an example to illustrate my point. Those figures had nothing to do with the Dennewitz scenario as I have never played it. And regarding the blood thing, I have far too many irons in the fire at present to take on another game. I really should not even be looking at this forum until I get my MP turn completed and another back to Jeff Bardon.


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