Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

The Rhine Tavern

*   NWC   NWC Staff   NWC Rules   NWC (DoR) Records   About Us   Send Email Inquiry to NWC

*   La Grande Armée Quartier Général    La Grande Armée Officer Records    Join La Grande Armée

*   Allied Coalition   Allied Officers   Join Coalition

*   Coalition Armies:   Austro-Prussian-Swedish Army   Anglo Allied Army (AAA)   Imperial Russian Army

 

Forums:    ACWGC    CCC     Home:    ACWGC    CCC
It is currently Tue May 06, 2025 6:14 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:59 am
Posts: 141
Salut!
I usually, in the battle, use ambushes, traps, tricks, sham operations, attacks from rear ( the last one is one of my favourite, but attacking from flank is also quite nice :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :oops: :twisted:)etc. ... . But this idea does not enter yet. That's for me to be an advanced level. Wow! :shock:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 1765
Location: New Zealand
It would seem mssr Boffi became Botti and then gut his Butty kicked by Jonesey and company :mrgreen:
All part of a rather bizarre chapter. Well handled by all and sundry.
I salute you sir's of all uniforms.

_________________
Marechal Knox

Prince d'Austerlitz et Comte d'Argentan
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur

"What is history but a fable agreed upon"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:26 pm
Posts: 288
Yes, well done Sirs! Being one of Giovanni's numerous victims (and most recent), I am not sad to see him, or any of his ubiquitous cousins for that matter, gone from the Club.

Mark, John, and all the other Senior officers and trainers involved did a great job in catching the fox! And on behalf of all us other guys out there trying to impress our grand leaders on the battlefield, thank you for all the time you spend on keeping this thing together and helping to uphold the honour and integrity of the Club!

Helga - Drinks for everyone! To Honour and Integrity! And Glory!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:14 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Mexico
Cheating Bastard-

Pardon my French messires, but this un-gentleman deserves no better.

Glad he is gone, congrats for nailing him Mark et all.



Regards,

Alférez
Fernando LopezGallo
Tiradores De Castilla
Brigada Española
The Anglo Allied Army

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:01 am
Posts: 1411
Location: USA
David Stotsenburgh wrote:
Ed,
just out of curiosity, which club was your game with Giovanni in?

regards


David,

It was ACWGC.

_________________
Field Marshal Sir Edward Blackburn, 1st Duke of Aberdeen K.G.
85th (Buck's Light Volunteers) Regiment of Foot
16th British Brigade
7th Division
III (Peninsular) Corps
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:17 am
Posts: 75
Location: USA
I can never quite understand why cheating in an on-line game is done? In so many ways we are each a virtual entity to one another. With exceptional cases where players meet in person (I've read a few cases), this is not true. I can almost understand -- don't agree -- but can see why (seek glory for themselves) why someone would cheat in a real face-to-face game where the real person receives glory ... or what have you. But in a virtual setting NO ONE SEES YOU. The only one who really knows cheating occurred is the cheater. So how someone can feel "glory" or whatever for winning when cheating on line gaming, I just can't figure out no matter how hard I've tried over the years.

I've been involved with NWC since Fall 1999. Sometimes very active and other times not.

I've played many many games (not all which have been recorded). I have to say after playing over a decade of these types of games, and having several advanced degrees in engineering and physics with the accompanying statistical coursework, I KNOW when my opponent cheats. Things over time start to not look like the statistical distributions they should. I used to save every file and go through all the past fire probabilities when encountering someone who cheated. I'd make a case, mathematically, send all the files to my commander in the club, and go from there.

But in the past few years, having no understanding why this would occur, I just stop playing the game and never respond again to the opponent. Unfortunately there have been more than one of these opponents. It is very sad to do so, but I recommend that the only way to deal with a cheater is just not to play him. Don't spend excess time trying to "discover" him. Just don't play him. I think when the club does proceed with the above IT IS GOOD! As a younger man, I used to proceed with such mathematical puzzles to prove cheating.

The reason I drop back to just not responding to the cheater is ... what prevents the cheater from creating a new email address using one of the free domains (yahoo, gmail, hotmail, etc) and come back here and signing up again as a new player in NWC. I don't see really how we can stop this kind of nonsense.

So the only real way is to use the Charlie Brown character "Charlie" who constantly tries to kick the football "Lucy" holds but she always yanks it away at the last moment ... DON'T PLAY THE GAME!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:32 pm 
The problem was that he was cheating inside a club sanctioned tournament. It was not as simple as to avoid playing him in this case. We had to pursue him to full discovery.

And just so the membership knows, I have perfected a very nice method to discover officers registering under multiple names, regardless of how they attempt to mask their trail. My best advice to anyone is to not try it. I pay very close attention. Your odds of getting past me now are very, very remote.

Like Dirk, I am an engineer by profession. I am extremely good at deriving a clear picture from a very complex pattern. I often see things that are easily overlooked by others, and my skills in logical deduction are really quite formidable. I solve problems for a living every single day.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:01 am
Posts: 1411
Location: USA
Mark,

My man! High Five.... :D

_________________
Field Marshal Sir Edward Blackburn, 1st Duke of Aberdeen K.G.
85th (Buck's Light Volunteers) Regiment of Foot
16th British Brigade
7th Division
III (Peninsular) Corps
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 468
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Tx USA
And my wife constantly complains that "boys" who spend time playing computer games amount to nothing! I should bring you guys home for dinner. Gaming or a weekend at the mall .... I'd rather take the canister.

_________________
Major General Richard Bradshaw, 1st Viscount of Manchester

Lloyd's Battery, Royal Artillery
Royal Regiment of Artillery
Reserve Artillery & Engineers


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:17 am
Posts: 75
Location: USA
I want to say, in case club members don't know, what Mark & team has done takes a LOT of work. The gratifying thing is that if done with statistical distributions in mind (ANOVA = Analysis of Variance) and sufficient play time has expired (e.g., sufficient firing or melee results have been observed) that a very strong mathematical case CAN BE MADE against a cheater. Everyone should thank all the men involved with the analysis of this -- IT IS A LOT OF PAINSTAKING WORK!

Here is an example of the concept that is used. An ulterior motive here is to discourage ("scare") possible would-be cheaters reading this that with enough effort YOU WILL BE DISCOVERED. Let's roll two 6-sided dice a million times. The distribution that results is:

DR Probability
2: 2.78%
3: 5.56
4: 8.33
5: 11.11
6: 13.89
7: 16.67
8: 13.89
9: 11.11
10: 8.33
11: 5.56
12: 2.78

The actual results dice rolls (DR) should match up with the above probabilities (Prob) within understood limits to the theoretical results after about 40 or so dice throws (there is another way for smaller samples to be analyzed called "t-test" but won't get into this). In a real game all the firing data must be accounted: modifiers, FP factors, multipliers, odds, ranges, etc and then the statistically probable result compared to the actual. And this must be done for many results to produce an "observational" distribution which can then be compared to a "theoretical" one. Also not all the "dice" used are six-sided as in above example; some are 10 sided or 100 sided, etc. But over MANY MANY TRIALS the actual distribution better match up reasonably (and in statistics there is a clearly defined mathematically acceptable method to decide this) to the statistical theoretical otherwise the player becomes with more and more suspicious. But it really does work, folks! It's just a lot of painstaking methodical work.

After playing many games one develops a sense of when "things are just not right". Then to really 'prove' the opponent is cheating, one must go back through all the files and perform ANOVA. The other option, which in my older years I've tended to do, is just stop communication (and play -- even to allowing them the "win") with the cheater.

The one thing that haunts me is maybe the guy just got incredibly lucky and I'm over-reacting. For example, once I had an opponent who hit long range artillery shots that were just incredible for 10 TURNS CONSECUTIVE. It just looked ridiculous. So I went back and spent probably two days and ran through each turn (replay one shot, record all data in spreadsheet, repeat, then analyze all at end) and showed the probability of hitting the long range shots 10 consecutive turns (it was against Imperiale Guard cavalry) was about 7 in 100,000. That's 0.007% which I just couldn't stomach. I sent in all the files and conclusions and one of the higher ups said "Well, that could happen." I guess it could but it's highly unlikely.

I remember another game where I had two "B" quality French good order squares in MARSH/SWAMP around 1000 men total. This was such a critical point in the game (Saltanovka) that winning that melee screamed CHEATING!!! What is the probability that a stack of heavy cav can break the square in melee (let alone the historical accuracy of heavy cav charging a square in a wetlands terrain)? I didn't even bother and go back to do the analysis. I just didn't play anymore. The game was already mostly wrapped up, but I let the game go and never even checked if the opponent declared it a win. Didn't matter.

So, thanks Mark and all the other guys who do this kind of "cheater prevention" thing. It is analogous to referees in games who flag a player's INTENTIONAL cheating, a very important activity for the long term health of the game.

As a last closing remark, one way to SUGGEST YOU ARE AN HONEST PLAYER (though not always 100%) is to perform all your fires and melees in order from, for example, west of board to east of board methodically. And to use the Artillery Dialog method of firing after all musketry is fired in the same order as the dialog pops up. This prevents one the more onerous methods of cheating: saving and then re-selecting the appropriate shot in the sequence of 'random' results to get the best result for the juiciest target.

Regards


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 1765
Location: New Zealand
Dirk how are things over at NASA?

_________________
Marechal Knox

Prince d'Austerlitz et Comte d'Argentan
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur

"What is history but a fable agreed upon"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 1425
Dirk,

Thanks for making the whole issue, even more clear to everyone.

Battle On...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:59 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Near Birmingham, England
So sad that someone could stoop so low for what is supposed to be an enjoyable "game".

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:04 am
Posts: 342
Location: United Kingdom
Despicable episode!!! Well done Gentlemen for all your hard work in bringing this to a satisfactory conclusion.

_________________
Colonel John Sheffield
9ème Régiment de Hussards
Brigade de Cavalerie Légère(Trelliard),

Réserve de Cavalerie,
La Grande Armée.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
POWERED_BY
Localized by Maël Soucaze © 2010 phpBB.fr