Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I have to go with Blucher as the hero. Gneisenau certainly helped put the Prussians in position to intervene, but it was Blucher's determination to live up to his promise that won the day at Waterloo.

The Goat? D'Erlon's wasted day at QB/Ligny. Whichever way he jumped would have been huge. Instead, he just sort of hung out there.

Feldmarschall Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Bn
Allied Coalition C-in-C

I agree Gary. DeErlon even marched towards Ligny at one point without sending ahead couriers prompting Napoleon to delay his decisive attack while he waited to ascertain the nature of the column approaching!

DeErlon also used the rather stupid deployment of his corps in Lines at Waterloo to form the renowned huge column. Only one brigade did not use this formation and they advancing in btn columns were able to form square when Welly sent forward the heavies.

The goat to DeErlon for sure! Ney a close second.





General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

HERE COMES SCOTT!! [:D][:p][8D]

Wow 2 votes for Blucher and two for Gneisenau!! This truly is my day!! [:D][:p]

Why do you guys think I celebrate "The Promise", because it was true!! [:D][8D]

Seriously, Blucher is never short on courage....he certainly tipped the balance.

But slightly more, I agree w/Cliff. It has to go to Gneisenau, whom ene though distrusted the British, as acting commander ordered the Prussians to retreat towards the British completing "The Promise" that they would support each other....once Blucher came back the determination was set!! It was a Saw Song after that....

I am writing this as John Etling in the PBS Napoleon Special on the Empire Series just stated, "Blucher won the Battle of Waterloo, the Prussians tipped the bucket..."

It is much like the battle of Gettysburg. The provoker got too confident, did not realize that the enemy finally had their card and had the right people in place to do the job....

Simply put, Napoleon was out generaled and his officers outclassed, just like Lee was at Gettysburg.

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I have always been in favor of bypassing strongpoints. In our old miniature battles that was something a good friend of mine taught me. Bypass the villages and move on to destroy the main army. Just keep a regiment or some small force available to handle any incursions on the flank.

Rommel was good at bypassing strongpoints as well (fortified boxes at Gazala and other places). As long as they were not equipped with 25 pounders they didnt give him that much trouble.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Napoleon was seeking the fixing battle at Waterloo. That is why he went all out for the key terrain features. Wellington's excellent dead ground tactics left him in the dark as to his dispositions so he sought to fix Wellingtons army with his two wings each of corp strength and then once the battle had been brought to the boil strike a decisive blow with the Guard and Lobau.

A plan that would have worked IMHO had it not been for Blucher. The mad fire eating sausage muncher was the key figure at Waterloo as he drew off the Masse de decision and prevented Napoleon finishing Wellington off with it. In the end all he had was 7 or so btns of guard instead of a force of 26-30btns for the key blow and we all know what happened to that small force.

Napoleons plan to defeat Wellington was a reasonable and typical Napoleonic one but Blucher wrecked it with his drive, passion and honor. Blucher was really N's nemesis after 1812 not Wellington.





General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

So true Monsieur General!But hold on there Monsieur Scottie and Monsieur Colin the promise wasn’t one sided now! Old Addy held till you found time to pull you old behind out under that horse! And if it wasn’t for the Pride that ex- Imperial Guardsman such as Lt. Gen Perponcher and others in the Allied command showed what would have been waiting for him at Waterloo would have been Nappy oui!

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Too cryptic that time for me Cliff. But bravo sir whatever it is your saying!

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Ok got worked up there what I’m saying is Old General forward Blucher would have met nothing but Frenchman if the Allied Army didn’t stand their ground. And men that use to be in the Imperial Army who are now part of the Dutch\ Belgian Armee stood and fought with the same pride such as Baron Lt General Perponcher –Sedinitzy.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Well the voting is still going on and Blucher is still ahead but here is one Frenchman that went beyond the call of duty and led his division to Glory General Baron Jacquinot. “While Napoleon himself threw Farine’s brigade of cuirassiers at the British heavies, General Baron Jacquinot on the far right of the French battle line, who was at that time supporting the attack on the Smohain complex ,saw with disbelief the rout of d’Erlon’s Corps by a single division of enemy cavalry . Jacquinot being the archetypal light cavalryman since 1806 knew at once and instinctively what to do he ordered Col Martigue to disengage his 3rd Lancers from the fight and wheeled the 3rd into line at a right angle. It was he that unleashed his lancers with a cry of not “Vive l’ Empereurâ€

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Colin Knox</i>
<br />Napoleons plan to defeat Wellington was a reasonable and typical Napoleonic one but Blucher wrecked it with his drive, passion and honor. Blucher was really N's nemesis after 1812 not Wellington.


General de Brigade Knox

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I fully agree wity General Knox. Blücher is the actual Waterloo winner & N's final winner too. Not Wellington.
All the mess around Welly the Iron Duke etc etc just proves (if needed) that english have always been better at communication & marketing than the germans

Guillaume AYMONIER-AMELINE

Maréchal de France

Comte de Strasbourg
Duc de Ratisbonne

Well of course Marechal you are right a nation of shopkeepers must be good at marketing! [:D]

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Well, we see their success at marketing, not only that they've convinced people that they won the battle more or less unaided. They've also convinced us that this is actually an important battle!

Why is the thread about Waterloo? Why not Leipzig?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If Nappie wins Waterloo, even if he's able to chase Wellington right into the sea, it just means the the glory of defeating Napoleon's empire one and for all would have gone to some Russian, Austrian or Prussian a month or two later.

Though, the English do have that skill for marketing. Take the REAL greatest British General of them all, Sir John Churchill, the Duke of Marlborough. Of his 4 great victories, three of them (including Blenheim) was a battle where he was joined by Eugene of Savoy (a far more notable commander than old Blucher IMNVHO), yet they're considered "Marlborough's"

Of course, Monty did try to usurp credit for the Bulge too....


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GC2A</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Colin Knox</i>
<br />Napoleons plan to defeat Wellington was a reasonable and typical Napoleonic one but Blucher wrecked it with his drive, passion and honor. Blucher was really N's nemesis after 1812 not Wellington.


General de Brigade Knox

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I fully agree wity General Knox. Blücher is the actual Waterloo winner & N's final winner too. Not Wellington.
All the mess around Welly the Iron Duke etc etc just proves (if needed) that english have always been better at communication & marketing than the germans

Guillaume AYMONIER-AMELINE

Maréchal de France

Comte de Strasbourg
Duc de Ratisbonne



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Feldmarschall Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Bn
Allied Coalition C-in-C

Monsieur if there was a hero the word meansâ€

Napoleon , Only had one Nemesis and that was him self.

Maybe in second place was Maréchal Davoust , Why . as he was in the same class as Napoleon . on the battle field and maybe better in office .

Blucher Nemesis was Davoust , Why because he never won a battle against him. and if he was at Waterloo would have changed the out come of the battle .

If Napoleon had won Waterloo . it would have taken a year before the British could get another Army together .. Prussian would not have attacked France by them selfs , The Austrians and Russians were a long way of to fight and get men ready for Battle in the hart Of france .

Davout had an Army of 100,000+ men ready to fight on the return of Napoloen . plus with what ever Napoleon came back with.

So If he had a Victory at Waterloo , the Napoleonic Campaigns would have gone on for another 5 to 10 years at least .

Just think of the Campaigns have played .



<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

Monsieur all though he wasn't there I would stand by your choice as an all around great hero and the one man that all of Europe was truly worried about.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS