Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Gentlemen, in the Jena Campaign's cavalry fights a defender side has a great advantage in melee. I reckon, but not so certainly, Bill Peters & Co. had done that there for to reduce the Prussian Cavalry odds.
I'm asking a suggestion: if there is a way to fix the nonsense.
Who knows [?]
Thank you for advance.[:)]


General-Adjutant Prince Vladimir Repnin
2nd Grenadier Division
8th Corps
2nd Russian Army,
His Imperial Majesty
Chevalier Guards' Chief

I understand your point and every time I charged the defending side won the Melee I played an 18turn game. Now in table top none charging side lost points. That is the only thing I see would be the different that’s my penny!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee

Its not me guys - the melee routine rewards you if you attack at 2:1 odds or better. That is my golden rule of meleeing in ALL of the games.

Thus in Jena I did not thing to reward anyone. The Prussians may not have had so large of squadrons but to reduce them would greatly unbalance the game as the Prussians are outnumbered as it is.

Tip: use guns to reduce the cavalry as much as you can. Lines too can inflict alot of losses on them.

Other than that its the same for the Prussian infantry. Put two lines in one hex and they are almost impossible to move. Not my call - the melee results are part of the engine. Read the Help notes on melees to get a feel for how it works.

But 2:1 seems to be the right odds to attack with. Other than that I think its a waste of time to melee in the games unless you have morale and flank and all that. Even then I have seen it fail.

Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!

Not sure what exactly the complaint is--is the Prussian cavalry too weak or too strong?

As for too weak, my experience is that I won my only Jena campaign basically with the cavalry alone. As for too strong, well, give those poor Prussians a chance! [;)]

<center>
[url="http://www.dswalter.net/NWC/2nd_Dragoons.htm"][/url]
Maj. Gen. D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
~ 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) ~
2nd (Union) Brigade, Cavalry Division, Anglo-Allied II Corps
----------
~ 3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards ~
[url="http://home.scarlet.be/~tsh40803/AAA/BritGuardHorse.html"][/url]
</center>

Bon jur Monsieur Bill I put that to a test in a small 18turn game and charged 475 French A Hussars vs 150 Prussian Hussars A and the two to one didn't work no fig or any thing I think what he is saying that the game engine is just like throwing dice but without modifiers. But good advice weaken the enemy before you charge!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br />Not sure what exactly the complaint is the Prussian cavalry too weak or too strong?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's not about the Prussian or Zulu cavalry.
It is about the general nonsense tendency when (the freshest example)
250 Cuirassiers (A+) charge 130 Hussars (A) and fail with losses 28 : 6.
And fooleries like this happen constantly.[:(!]
Monsieur le colonel is right: "...the game engine is just like throwing dice but without modifiers." But, in this case, the engine does not cost that money. It is not realistic and historic.

OK, gentlemen, is it possible "to open a hood and fix something there inside my own garage" [?]



General-Adjutant Prince Vladimir Repnin
2nd Grenadier Division
8th Corps
2nd Russian Army,
His Imperial Majesty
Chevalier Guards' Chief

Gents just tick the optional rule called 'Optional melee results'.
This flattens the curb out and makes the situations much less bipolar. I have used it in games recently and I think it's more realistic as it leaves less to chance.

I suspect using this rule the example Vladimir gives it would be a closer melee and would probably come out in favour of the heavies due to their +20% making them = 300 vs 150 (the A's cancel each other out) and therefore 2-1.

To quote on this rule from the manual

'If you select Optional Melee Results, then the resulting melee casualty values are based on the average of two default melee casualties. This has the effect of reducing the variation in casualty values.'

Not sure about Zulu cavalry though not familar with them. I would take a british martini action rifle or carbine anyday though.

General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan



Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.





CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Oui, I would say that was gamy and a trick of the trade or was it one of those things like read the manual! Any way it works great that should help everyone in the club. Oh since the fame Zulu's had no Cav is he saying the French had none also, well I guess when you have arrow shotting Cossacks you can say that!

Col Kliff Marbot
3/3 e Artillerie de Cheval
2nd Div I Corps LaGrande Armee

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Colin Knox</i>
Not sure about Zulu cavalry though not familar with them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'd be surprised if you were. Zulu fought on foot.

I for one like variation. The oddest things happen in war. And in the long run, things will even out.

<center>
[url="http://www.dswalter.net/NWC/2nd_Dragoons.htm"][/url]
Maj. Gen. D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
~ 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) ~
2nd (Union) Brigade, Cavalry Division, Anglo-Allied II Corps
----------
~ 3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards ~
[url="http://home.scarlet.be/~tsh40803/AAA/BritGuardHorse.html"][/url]
</center>

Gentlemen,

I must concur with the good Maj Gen Walter's view.

'The oddest things happen in war. And in the long run, things will even out.'

Any historian and reader of battles would agree. The bizarre little events are more realistic than armchair generals realize. These are replicated quite well I feel in these games without using the Optional Melee Results. Likewise not using the Optional Fire Results does a similar job of providing the unpredictability of battle.

Vive L'Fickle Finger of Fate!

It was Her that the Irresistible Force that was Napoleon harnessed and mastered but She deserted him in the end.

'Napoleon has not been conquered by men. He was greater than all of us. But God punished him because he relied on his own intelligence alone, until that prodigious instrument was strained to breaking point. Everything breaks in the end'
Carl XIV Johan, King of Sweden, former Marshal Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte, 1821.



Col Mike Ellwood
Commanding Officer
3rd Dragoon Division
Reserve Cavalry

Now the Zulus!

They would have conquered all of Africa under Napoleon's command!

Shaka Zulu! Islawandalla! and Rouke's Drift!

Glorious and Magnificent!

Col Mike Ellwood
Commanding Officer
3rd Dragoon Division
Reserve Cavalry

Oh sure, if Vladmir is NOT using the Optional Melee results that would ac**** for it. I NEVER use the standard melee results. Far too many odd results like the Old Guard losing to landwehr when they are attacking from the flank with a leader, the wind behind them, fair maidens calling to them from beyond the landwehr, Scott Ludwig daring them to beat his landwehr, Gary McClellan howling at them from the balcony of some Lutheran church in the village.

Well you get my drift. [:D]

So Vladmir, are you using the Optional Melee Results or not? Inquiring minds want to know![:p]

Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!

But Bill,

Who would have expected L'Gaurd to 'Recule! from some surprised close ranch flank volleys as well? But it did happen, just as who would have expected a horde of loin cloth wearing spear thrusters to annihilate a whole battalion of well trained, breach loading armed British infantry in 1879!

Now had Ney's cavalry attacked been an all arms supported affair and had Lord Chelmsford done a proper reconnaissance job before splitting his force these Bizarre dice roll results should never have occurred! And had vladimir's cuirassiers and Scott's landwehr been properly softened up and disordered then I suspect the reult would have been predictable, if not then something unexpected and unpredictable occurred! How inconvenient to the plan!!!

Well you get my drift
[;)][:D]

Col Mike Ellwood
Commanding Officer
3rd Dragoon Division
Reserve Cavalry

Yes I was watching a documentary on Leyte Gulf earlier and was reminded of the amazing performance of the small group US destroyers vs a whole lot of JP battleships. A good example of what Mike is talking about.

So the advantage of the optional rule is you can have it either way.

Salute!

General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan



Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.





CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Actually Mike, Scott's landwehr took off the moment they saw the ladies waving hankies from the balconies. After that it was a simple affair of our GLORIOUS Guard mopping up!

Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!