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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Just to a note to Dominik and John C. - thanks for the Confirmation ability in our DoR. The ACWGC does not have this and neither does the PCC and frankly it IS needed. It stops officers from accidentally starting a game with the wrong opponent AND also in those rare instances where a malicious member enters in 80+ games just to get back at HQ.

Good feature and its worth the effort that each of us (and the Club Pres.) put into it to make sure that the game is actually started in the system.

Note: REALLY - the members should do the confirming. Why? Well for Mark I am sure its become a paper chase to just press the button to get the game started. I would MUCH prefer to do my own confirming of games as that way I approve of the match in the first place.

Not sure why players are having a problem confirming their own games .... :roll:

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For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Quote:
Not sure why players are having a problem confirming their own games .... :roll:


In my case old age and brain farts! I promise to be more careful and thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:38 am 
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Some have told me that they do not like the "bureaucracy" in all the confirmations

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:24 pm 
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I actually am not a fan of it myself....but it isn't the end of the world either....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:25 pm 
It literally takes me about 30 seconds to log into the DoR and make a confirmation. I have to say that it is lies far beyond my understanding as to how this could ever be a 'Bureaucratic Hardship'. It takes me significantly longer to type individual emails to officers that ignore their DoR responsibilities, trying to simply get them to do what they should do without ever being asked. :roll: :roll: :roll:

If you really want to know the truth, I bet it actually takes me closer to 20 seconds to make a confirmation, as I log in so often. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Our DoR System could be improved. So could our websites. So could my HPS play. Everything can be improved, but the DoR is a critical component of this club, and every officer has a responsibility to do their part. Some do, but a great many of the officers in this club do not. I personally think that needs to change, particularly as not properly tending to one's records has a negative impact on your opponent's records. It is simply a matter of honorable respect IMHO. :o :o :o

Scott, can you or anyone else reading this thread explain to me why they find confirmations in the DoR System to be an undue burden? I give great credit to Dominik for its creation and John for his vision. :P :P :P


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:37 pm 
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I just don't like it that's all. Some folks could care less about their records and choose to never log into DoR. Folks do that at the ACWGC & their opponents handle all the battle recording. It allows the opponent, who may care more about it to get the points, while the person who doesn't care can just let it go & not worry about things. It then also creates the need for people to be chased down....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:13 pm 
SLudwig wrote:
I just don't like it that's all. Some folks could care less about their records and choose to never log into DoR. Folks do that at the ACWGC & their opponents handle all the battle recording. It allows the opponent, who may care more about it to get the points, while the person who doesn't care can just let it go & not worry about things. It then also creates the need for people to be chased down....


Then why do we ever bother to keep records? It is a lot of work as you well know. Should we just divide the club into those who care, keep thier records, and assign those who don't to a special class where their records are totally ignored? It would sure simplify the administration of the club. Those who are complacent cause problems for those who are not.

The thing that absolutely cannot happen is that the administrators of this club become complacent.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:13 am 
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I like the ways things are right now. It's an easy system and simple system. 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:03 am 
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SLudwig wrote:
I just don't like it that's all. Some folks could care less about their records and choose to never log into DoR. Folks do that at the ACWGC & their opponents handle all the battle recording. It allows the opponent, who may care more about it to get the points, while the person who doesn't care can just let it go & not worry about things. It then also creates the need for people to be chased down....


this gentlemans position seems reasonable and I agree with it.

I agree that the ACWGC DOR is easier to record and end a battle.

I really do not understand why the opponents must confirm starting and ending a scenario in NWC.
whoever designed the DOR created two layers of maintenance that can bog down and clog the system.

The ACWGC DOR only requires one player to start and end the entry.

Are there really players out there cheating???

That mechanism is not attached to the ACWGC DOR and I think it works.

just my humble opinion........a new player......so take it for what its worth.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:26 am 
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Mark,

The amount of people who don't care at all is very minimal. Most people do care. Some people are passive and will do so when asked. But I've played people who care about the records, but have asked me to fill out the game forms & what not, which I don't mind doing. Plus peoples attitudes change as the years go on too.

We as Admins service the Club consistently for all members regardless of their level of interest. It is what we do when we take the office.

Clint - your opinion is always welcome. :) We always welcome input. That is how we all started off ourselves....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:35 am 
Well, I like the confirmation system. By having it I learned that I was slated to play a game I never agreed to. Now, it was an error, and was cleaned up pronto. Much better than to have messy records that get cleaned up every few years when no one can remember what did or did not happen.

So in my opinion, this method helps the system stay clean, and not get clogged up.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:01 am 
Clint Matthews wrote:
I really do not understand why the opponents must confirm starting and ending a scenario in NWC. Whoever designed the DOR created two layers of maintenance that can bog down and clog the system.


Clint, how much time does it actually take you to confirm the beginning and ending of a game in the NWC DoR? How much time are you actually spending on this particular task per game?

Quote:
The amount of people who don't care at all is very minimal. Most people do care. Some people are passive and will do so when asked. But I've played people who care about the records, but have asked me to fill out the game forms & what not, which I don't mind doing. Plus peoples attitudes change as the years go on too.


Scott, you have obviously not studied the DoR Administrative Logs like I have. The problem is much wider spread than 'very minimal'. I see the effort required to confirm these games as 'very minimal' at best. 'Infinitesimal' might actually be a better description compared to the time dedicated to playing the games themselves. I can confirm the beginning and ending of a game, including comments, is less than one minute. It literally takes me hours to complete one game turn against a good opponent in a mid sized scenario. It takes me a substantially longer amount of time to go through the DoR games that officers are ignoring and send an individual email to them requesting that they make a DoR confirmation that has been outstanding for long periods of time. I should not have to ask that this be done in so many cases. It is the responsibility of the individual officers to do their part. In every instance, the system automatically sends an email notifying the officer that there is an entry in the DoR System requiring his attention. To ignore this until someone personally reminds you is disrespectful to both your opponent, whose potential victory, promotion and medals are held in limbo pending your confirmation, and to the administrative staff that must take their time to send you a personal email, usually several, requesting that you properly perform your duties of which you have already been notified by the system as needing to be done.

We are not a club of children whose hands should be held and whose noses should be regularly wiped. At least I hope that is not the case. Our membership is generally composed of very intelligent men. It has to be, as the games we play are very complex.

I expect more from responsible adults. That is the bottom line really. Now, at the same time, if the membership feels that we need to change our DoR System in some manner, I am sure Dominik will be willing to help, but bear in mind that his programming assistance is entirely voluntary, just like all of the rest of us. I want every member of this club to have a voice, but by the same token, if you are going to criticize the hard work of others, then you should volunteer your time to help improve this club in some manner yourself.

Let's hear from the members. I would ask everyone reading this thread to post your opinion on this issue. The question is this:

"Do you find our DoR System too cumbersome to use and, if so, how would you like to see it modified?"

I ask that you be very specific in your answers; Also that you clearly define the reasoning behind your thoughts.

I recently composed a document with very specific instructions as to how to register a game in the DoR System and reset your password as needed. I emailed it to every member of this club as well as posting it a notification in the Rhine Tavern. I did this entirely own my own time because I care about this club and its members. I have not received a single question pertaining to that
document which tells me either it was very clear in its instructions, or no one even bothered to read it. I am hoping that the former is the actual reason.

As a servant of the membership, I welcome everyone's opinion. Talk to me. I am listening.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:17 am 
I find the current system very useful. When I was active several years ago, I had trouble figuring out what games I was in, etc. With this system, I get an email asking me to look at confirming a game's start or ending. By clicking on the link in the email, I go to a page where I can see all my activity, and am actually more up to date with what I've been doing than I ever was with the old system of a few years back. I like it, and if there are improvements that need to be done, I can't think of any.

al


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:29 am 
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The current system works for me. In rare instances where an opponent is uncooperative a quick email to Mark has resolved the issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:32 am 
Colonel Jones, salute!
As a new member I have yet to confirm the ending of a battle, so I cannot comment on that part of the process.
When I first started using the system to register a game, the only problem I had was figuring out I had to hit apply when I was ready to move to the next box below. Reckon I'm just slow.
All in all I think the DOR is a very concise and clear system to use.
And it is most unfortunate that admins must spend so much time chasing down players.
As for your document about the whole process, it was very clearly written and helpful, thank you for the time spent.


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